B Who was the observer for the first 10 billion years?

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on the concept of an observer in relation to the universe's age and quantum mechanics. It questions who or what could have been the observer during the first 10 billion years of the universe, given that life on Earth is only 3.8 billion years old. Participants clarify that reality does not require a human observer, and the statement regarding particles lacking definite properties until measured pertains specifically to quantum mechanics, not cosmology. There is a critique of using popular science literature, like Stephen Hawking's works, as a basis for scientific discussion, emphasizing the need for peer-reviewed sources. The thread concludes with a call for more rigorous understanding of quantum mechanics.
newrd
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If reality requires an observer, and life on Earth is only 3.8 billion years old- yet the universe is 13.8 billion years old, who was the observer for the first 10 billion years?
 
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Reality does not require an observer.
 
So when we say "A particle has neither a definite position nor a definite velocity unless and until those quantities are measured by an observer" it doesn't mean for reality in general- just specific particles?
 
newrd said:
So when we say

In the words of Tonto, "What you mean we?" I have never said such a thing, because it's not correct. A human observer is not required.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
In the words of Tonto, "What you mean we?" I have never said such a thing, because it's not correct. A human observer is not required.
Ahh ok, I got the quote from a Stephen Hawking book, I thought it may just be the generally agreed upon stance?
 
Vanadium 50 said:
In the words of Tonto, "What you mean we?" I have never said such a thing, because it's not correct. A human observer is not required.
Ohh yeah- and I never said human ;)
 
newrd said:
when we say "A particle has neither a definite position nor a definite velocity unless and until those quantities are measured by an observer"

Then we are talking about quantum mechanics, not cosmology, and you should spend some time actually learning QM from a textbook.

newrd said:
I got the quote from a Stephen Hawking book

Which, since I'm assuming it was a pop science book (because Hawking doesn't say anything like this in any actual peer-reviewed literature), is not an acceptable source when you want to discuss the actual science. Thread closed.
 
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