Why are high energies needed in colliders

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the reasons high beam energies are necessary in particle colliders to produce new physics and particles, particularly in relation to the Higgs boson. Participants explore the mechanisms of energy conversion into mass and the dynamics of parton energy distribution in collisions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why energies around ~TeV are required when the Higgs mass is approximately 125 GeV, noting that collisions involve proton constituents that carry only part of the proton's total energy.
  • It is suggested that while a Higgs boson can theoretically be produced at lower energies, the likelihood decreases significantly due to the need for high-energy partons.
  • Participants discuss the role of parton distribution functions (PDFs) in determining the energy shared between partons, with some noting that these distributions are influenced by quantum chromodynamics (QCD) dynamics.
  • There is mention of energy conservation in particle interactions, with new particles possessing both rest and kinetic energy.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the underlying mechanisms of energy conversion to mass, questioning how formation rates can be predicted without a clear understanding of this process.
  • Others highlight that quantum field theory provides the framework for predicting probabilities of various scattering processes, including elastic and inelastic interactions.
  • A metaphor involving apples is used to illustrate how higher total energy allows for smaller energy fractions of partons to contribute to new particle formation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views regarding the necessity of high energies in colliders, the nature of parton energy distribution, and the mechanisms of energy conversion to mass. There is no consensus on these topics, and several questions remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the assumptions underlying parton distribution functions and the complexities of QCD dynamics. The relationship between energy and particle formation remains a topic of exploration without definitive conclusions.

mattmt
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Why are such high beam energies required at particle colliders to produce new physics/particles?
The Higgs particle has energy of ~MeV so why are ~TeV energies required?
Furthermore, by what mechanism does the energy get converted into particles/mass?
 
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The Higgs mass is ca 125 GeV, which is 0.125 TeV. In general, at these energies, the collisions are collisions between the proton constituents and each constituent carries only a part of the full proton momentum and energy.
 
Those constituent energies can be described with so-called parton distribution functions. It is possible to produce a Higgs at 125 GeV if the colliding protons just have 500 GeV each, but it is very unlikely as you need very high-energetic partons then. At the LHC energy of 4 (later up to 7 TeV) the energy required fraction for the partons is much smaller.

Furthermore, by what mechanism does the energy get converted into particles/mass?
There is no fundamental "how" (at least not in physics). It just happens.
 
energy conservation. The new particles have rest energy and kinetic energy. The total conservation of energy in the interaction is the "how"
 
There are multiple processes happening at once, it is not the protons interacting, but instead the constituents for a process like the Higgs creation (vector boson fusion, or quark interaction), so part of the reason for the higher energies is that each process gets a fraction of the TeV scale energy.
 
Thanks for the replies!
So what determines the way that energy is shared between partons? Why does the parton energy distribution change at higher energies and why does a larger total energy allow a smaller energy parton fraction for new particle formation?

As for the underlying mechanism of energy to particle conversion, how are we able to predict formation rates if we don't know how energy is converted to matter? eg. Why does the probability for an elastic scatter differ from that of an inelastic particle creation?

Sorry for the bombard of questions..
 
mattmt said:
So what determines the way that energy is shared between partons?

This is determined by the QCD dynamics governing the partons. However, it is a problem to calculate this due to the relevant strong coupling and it is extracted from measurements.
The distribution describing the probability to have a given parton with a particular fraction of the proton's energy is called the parton distribution functions (PDF's)

mattmt said:
Why does the parton energy distribution change at higher energies

The PDF's don't really depend on the proton energy. They depend on the parton type, the energy fraction it has, and a scale which is used in the calculation.

mattmt said:
why does a larger total energy allow a smaller energy parton fraction for new particle formation

If the proton energy is higher the same energy fraction means the parton has more energy and so does the collision in which the particle is created.


mattmt said:
As for the underlying mechanism of energy to particle conversion, how are we able to predict formation rates if we don't know how energy is converted to matter? eg. Why does the probability for an elastic scatter differ from that of an inelastic particle creation?

We have a theory, the standard model (which is a quantum field theory) , which can predict the probabilities of different scattering processes to happen, elastic and inelastic.
Different initial/final states will results in a different probability. Usually the quantity of interest is the cross section.
 
I am not sure what you are trying to say here:

mattmt said:
As for the underlying mechanism of energy to particle conversion, how are we able to predict formation rates if we don't know how energy is converted to matter? eg. Why does the probability for an elastic scatter differ from that of an inelastic particle creation?
 
Quantum mechanics is probabilistic.

So if you know the quantum theory, you can calculate the probabilities of these different interactions (elastic, inelastic, production of particular particles).

Of course this relies on one understanding the theory, and actually being able to do the prediction. This is why measuring these things experimentally allows to test or constrain the theory.
 
  • #10
mattmt said:
and why does a larger total energy allow a smaller energy parton fraction for new particle formation?
If you need 10 apples, you can have 10% of 100 apples, or 1% of 1000 apples.
If you need 125 GeV, you can have 12.5% of 1 TeV or 1.25% of 10 TeV. Same concept.
mattmt said:
As for the underlying mechanism of energy to particle conversion, how are we able to predict formation rates if we don't know how energy is converted to matter?
Quantum field theory gives the formulas, and they work very well. If those formulas correspond to anything that could be called "reality" is a question for philosophy.
 

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