Why Are Homology Groups Not MUCH Larger?

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Mandelbroth
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Groups
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of homology groups in algebraic topology, specifically focusing on the first homology group of the circle, ##S^1##. Participants explore the definition of free abelian groups of n-chains and the inclusion of paths in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about why all paths in ##S^1## are not included in the definition of the free abelian group of n-chains, questioning the treatment of paths as 1-simplices.
  • Another participant clarifies that the discussion is about equivalence classes of paths rather than individual paths, noting that many different paths belong to one equivalence class.
  • A later reply elaborates on the nature of homology as a quotient of modules or vector spaces, explaining that cycles are equivalent if their difference bounds, and discusses how paths around ##S^1## can be represented by classes based on the number of times they loop around.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants appear to agree on the importance of equivalence classes in the context of homology, but the initial confusion about the inclusion of paths indicates that some aspects of the definition remain unclear or contested.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence on the definitions of paths and equivalence classes, as well as the algebraic structures involved in homology, which may not be fully resolved in the conversation.

Mandelbroth
Messages
610
Reaction score
23
So far, I think algebraic topology is turning out to be the best thing since sliced bread. However, I'm having a bit of difficulty with homology, for one particular reason.

Consider, as an example, the first homology group of ##S^1##. The definition of the free abelian group (or, in general, the ##R##-module) of ##n##-chains is the free abelian group generated by ALL ##n##-simplices. Why do we not include ALL paths in ##S^1## in this definition? Are these not also 1-simplices?

Thank you!
 
Physics news on Phys.org
You are not talking about "paths", you are talking about equivalence classes of paths. Many different paths lie in one equivalence class.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: 1 person
HallsofIvy said:
You are not talking about "paths", you are talking about equivalence classes of paths. Many different paths lie in one equivalence class.
AHA! Thank you! That makes soooooo much more sense. :redface::smile:
 
To add a little bit, remember that homology is a quotient be it of modules or vector spaces --cycles/boundaries -- which shows the elements to be classes, where two cycles are equivalent (geometrically *) if their difference bounds . And in the case of ##S^1## , the classes are the paths that go around n times. You can see that if you go around a non-integer "number of times" k , then the path can be deformed/homotoped to the path class |_ k _|, where |_ k _| is the greatest integer less than k .* You can also do this purely algebraically.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
5K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
987
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 19 ·
Replies
19
Views
7K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
5K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K