News Why are we concentrating on gay specific bullying instead of all bullying?

[FlexGunship]

Respect the fellow man,

Respect the individual freedom!

that includes religions, sex and all.

My religion requires that I denounce homosexuality as a sin against the community. Do you respect my religious right to denounce homosexuality?

 

[JaredJames]

fight back!

Easier said than done when the bully is twice your size.

It's rare that someone of large physical stature is bullied by someone who is smaller (and has no backup).

 

[JaredJames]

My religion requires that I denounce homosexuality as a sin against the community. Do you respect my religious right to denounce homosexuality?

For me it's not about respecting you. It's about not caring what you believe as long as it doesn't affect myself or others.

 

[FlexGunship]

Respect the fellow man,

Respect the individual freedom!

that includes religions, sex and all.


And for the bullying in general, fight back!
FIGHT FOR YOUR FREEDOM!

My religion requires that I denounce homosexuality as a sin against the community. Do you respect my religious right to denounce homosexuality?

Easier said than done when the bully is twice your size.

It's rare that someone of large physical stature is bullied by someone who is smaller (and has no backup).

This is the problem with overly simple dictates and agendas.

 

[lisab]

My religion requires that I denounce homosexuality as a sin against the community. Do you respect my religious right to denounce homosexuality?

The thread is about bullying gays, especially the young ones. I doubt your religion requires you to bully homosexuals, especially if they're not adults yet.

Denounce away, if you must...just aim it away from the kids.

 

[FlexGunship]

The thread is about bullying gays, especially the young ones. I doubt your religion requires you to bully homosexuals, especially if they're not adults yet.

Denounce away, if you must...just aim it away from the kids.

Gotta' save them from the fire and the brimstone. It's my duty to save all innocent souls! Not just the ones that are 18 and over. Teasing is an effective way of getting their attention!

(I hope everyone knows this is an act. I'm just playing devil's advocate to demonstrate a point.)

 

[JaredJames]

The thread is about bullying gays, especially the young ones. I doubt your religion requires you to bully homosexuals, especially if they're not adults yet.

Denounce away, if you must...just aim it away from the kids.

Actually, I'd say that given the definition of bullying (whether from Wiki or flex), places such as the WBC do bully people.

Whether or not we consider it bullying ourselves is another issue, but it certainly fits the definition.

 

[DaveC426913]

I don't see why aggression comes into it though, but then I think I don't have the correct definition of aggression.

This confuses me. The definition you quoted actually includes the word "aggression".

Bullying is any act of intimidation used in an asymmetrically aggressive interaction carried out because of actual or perceived differences in:

1. genetic constitution,
2. social preferences, or
3. currently held opinions.

I think it may be too specific. You've listed only three examples. I don't think the defitnion should list examples.

My religion requires that I denounce homosexuality as a sin against the community. Do you respect my religious right to denounce homosexuality?

Bullying is an act against a person. There is certainly prejudice against ideals, but that's a separate issue. Bullying is specific to a person (or persons).

You can denounce an act by expressing it publicly, but you cannot bully a person unless they are within eye/earshot for you to get their attention.

 

[FlexGunship]

Bullying is an act against a person. There is certainly prejudice against ideals, but that's a separate issue. Bullying is specific to a person (or persons).

Sorry, yes, I was simply trying to disarm AlexES' overly simple post. It was a hair off-topic.

 

[FlexGunship]

I think it may be too specific. You've listed only three examples. I don't think the defitnion should list examples.

Well, it should be possible to get rid of the examples (I agree, definitions work poorly with them), however, it leaves the definition open to include economic issues (like creditors trying to collect a debt) and possibly safety issues.

However, I cannot think of a type of bullying that is not based on one of those three things EXCEPT for bullying a poor kid because he's poor. I was hoping to group that under social preferences even though it often isn't a preference.

 

[FlexGunship]

Second try:

Bullying is any act of intimidation used in an asymmetrically aggressive interaction carried out because of actual or perceived discrepancies of existence for the purpose of causing physical or emotional duress.​

 

[lisab]

Gotta' save them from the fire and the brimstone. It's my duty to save all innocent souls! Not just the ones that are 18 and over. Teasing is an effective way of getting their attention!

(I hope everyone knows this is an act. I'm just playing devil's advocate to demonstrate a point.)

Yeah, I figured. I was trying to sound just a little bit "Won't someone think of the children?" while still being serious, lol.

 

[JaredJames]

This confuses me. The definition you quoted actually includes the word "aggression".

What I meant was, even though the definition has aggression in it, I don't see why it needs it.

It turns out I had the wrong idea for the definition for aggression (I took it to mean a purely violent act). However after reading on it, I agree that aggression should be included.

 

[ShawnD]

I am wondering why the nation is gathering under the flag of bullying in relation specifically to gays instead of attacking the issue of bullying in general?

We tried rallying this before and it didn't work; people simply don't care about children. Working it from the gay angle or the black angle is the best chance we have of finding bullies, charging them with very serious federal crimes, and having them permanently locked away in federal prisons until they are killed by the other inmates. If you just want to protect children in general, then you only get support from people who can relate to that situation - parents with children who are bullied or parents who were bullied themselves. If we go at it from the black angle, we can get anti-bully support from black people who were never bullied and black people who don't even have kids. Instead of labeling bullies as predators against children, we label them as predators against black people. Not just black children, but all black people. We reduce bullies to the same level as nazis or KKK members, then we can inflict punishments suitable for those labels.

The way this works is very simple. It's a process called "dehumanization" where the goal is to label a group as being less than human. When people are labeled as sub-human monsters, it's easier to do unbelievably cruel things to them. Things we have always wanted to do but could never get wide support for. We've already tried to get bullying labeled as a violent crime, and it doesn't seem to work. If we find a way to label it has a race or sexuality motivated hate crime, we can label bullies as racist nazi klan members who deserve to be locked in jail and forcibly sodomized by the other prisoners.

This really isn't a troll post. Personally, I like to frame things in terms of violence against women. I argued that bullies act the way they do because they believe they can get what they want through intimidation and violence. Guess what abusive husbands do. They get what they want through intimidation and violence. If we rounded up all bullies and sent them to federal prisons, it would reduce cases of spousal abuse and domestic violence

 

[Char. Limit]

We tried rallying this before and it didn't work; people simply don't care about children. Working it from the gay angle or the black angle is the best chance we have of finding bullies, charging them with very serious federal crimes, and having them permanently locked away in federal prisons until they are killed by the other inmates. If you just want to protect children in general, then you only get support from people who can relate to that situation - parents with children who are bullied or parents who were bullied themselves. If we go at it from the black angle, we can get anti-bully support from black people who were never bullied and black people who don't even have kids. Instead of labeling bullies as predators against children, we label them as predators against black people. Not just black children, but all black people. We reduce bullies to the same level as nazis or KKK members, then we can inflict punishments suitable for those labels.

The way this works is very simple. It's a process called "dehumanization" where the goal is to label a group as being less than human. When people are labeled as sub-human monsters, it's easier to do unbelievably cruel things to them. Things we have always wanted to do but could never get wide support for. We've already tried to get bullying labeled as a violent crime, and it doesn't seem to work. If we find a way to label it has a race or sexuality motivated hate crime, we can label bullies as racist nazi klan members who deserve to be locked in jail and forcibly sodomized by the other prisoners.

This really isn't a troll post. Personally, I like to frame things in terms of violence against women. I argued that bullies act the way they do because they believe they can get what they want through intimidation and violence. Guess what abusive husbands do. They get what they want through intimidation and violence. If we rounded up all bullies and sent them to federal prisons, it would reduce cases of spousal abuse and domestic violence

No offense, but I hate it when people frame everything in terms of violence against women. Have you ever seen a news headline "27 dead, 4 of them women" or something similar to that? It just tells me that I'm expendable, that if I die and a woman dies, I'll be ignored while she'll be turned into a martyr.

Oh, and before you people say anything, I don't have a source for a personal belief. I'm also not stating anything that can be sourced.

 

[ShawnD]

No offense, but I hate it when people frame everything in terms of violence against women. Have you ever seen a news headline "27 dead, 4 of them women" or something similar to that? It just tells me that I'm expendable, that if I die and a woman dies, I'll be ignored while she'll be turned into a martyr.

Oh, and before you people say anything, I don't have a source for a personal belief. I'm also not stating anything that can be sourced.

It's an important argument to make because women are often a lot less eager to round people up and essentially put them into death camps (prisoner on prisoner violence in prisons is extremely high). We get support from gay men by saying the anti-bullying law is to stop gay bashing, we get support from black men by saying it's to stop race motivated violence, and we get support from women of all races and configurations by saying it's to prevent future spousal abuse.

Eventually we'll stop bullying violence. If we divide people into enough ethnic groups that it's 99% likely the person you punch is a different ethnicity, then we can label all of it as racially motivated hate crimes. As long as the headlines always say something to the effect that the bully is a nazi, we can punish them any way we want

 

[Char. Limit]

It's an important argument to make because women are often a lot less eager to round people up and essentially put them into death camps (prisoner on prisoner violence in prisons is extremely high). We get support from gay men by saying the anti-bullying law is to stop gay bashing, we get support from black men by saying it's to stop race motivated violence, and we get support from women of all races and configurations by saying it's to prevent future spousal abuse.

Eventually we'll stop bullying violence. If we divide people into enough ethnic groups that it's 99% likely the person you punch is a different ethnicity, then we can label all of it as racially motivated hate crimes. As long as the headlines always say something to the effect that the bully is a nazi, we can punish them any way we want

So, in other words, as a white Christian male, I'm screwed?

 

[JaredJames]

So, in other words, as a white Christian male, I'm screwed?

No, as a white atheist male you're screwed.

 

[Char. Limit]

No, as a white atheist male you're screwed.

I wonder if I can get Spinozists as an oppressed minority then. Because I belong to that group...

Yeah, I'm not really Christian... or atheist, I guess...

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I'm not sure how we might get rid of bullying. It seems a naturally ingrained play of power for determining social hierarchy. In social animals it would seem to be simple instinct.

 

[AlexES16]

My religion requires that I denounce homosexuality as a sin against the community. Do you respect my religious right to denounce homosexuality?

I respect your idea, but in a country with good constitution you can't attack the individual becouse its a crime. But you are free to think what ever you want.

Goverment is to protect the smallest minority of all time, the individual.

 

[ShawnD]

So, in other words, as a white Christian male, I'm screwed?

Correct. There's no way to get straight white christian men to support anti-bullying causes. If this was actually possible, it would already be done and bullies would already be in death camps. Luckily white straight men are not the majority. If we get support from all gays, all blacks, all jews, all muslims, and all women, we can pass a law to put bullies on death row.


I just saw that movie kickass and I'm thinking the two bullies in that movie totally deserve to be on death row. This is why we keep fighting the good fight!

 

[Char. Limit]

Correct. There's no way to get straight white christian men to support anti-bullying causes. If this was actually possible, it would already be done and bullies would already be in death camps. Luckily white straight men are not the majority. If we get support from all gays, all blacks, all jews, all muslims, and all women, we can pass a law to put bullies on death row.


I just saw that movie kickass and I'm thinking the two bullies in that movie totally deserve to be on death row. This is why we keep fighting the good fight!

You're rather wrong with that second sentence. I'll just offer a counterexample. I'm a straight white male (does Spinozist count as Christian?) and I support anti-bullying causes. I just support them for what they are: anti-bullying causes.

 

[AlexES16]

Easier said than done when the bully is twice your size.

It's rare that someone of large physical stature is bullied by someone who is smaller (and has no backup).

Big people also attack becouse there is no retaliation. Even if you get beat up, just one hit will make his brain remeber that, if he wana mess with you at least he is gona get 1 hard and painful blow.

Also if the problem is serius, go boxing, MMA or what ever at least for a time.

Live free or die

 

[JaredJames]

Big people also attack becouse there is no retaliation. Even if you get beat up, just one hit will make his brain remeber that, if he wana mess with you at least he is gona get 1 hard and painful blow.

Also if the problem is serius, go boxing, MMA or what ever at least for a time.

Live free or die

Spoken as someone who has never been on the receiving end of things by the sound of it.

When the person is bigger than you and you aren't capable of fighting back, you don't.

I can't punch for sh*t. If it came to close quarters and I didn't have a weapon, I would be useless against someone like that.

 

[JaredJames]

Goverment is to protect the smallest minority of all time, the individual.

Not necessarily.

The police are there to protect you, however they don't have to respond to your call. You aren't entitled to protection from the government when it comes to crime.

Don’t look to Constitution for help. “In its landmark decision of DeShaney v. Winnebago County Department of Social Services,” Stevens writes, “the U.S. Supreme Court declared that the Constitution does not impose a duty on the state and local governments to protect the citizens from criminal harm.”

http://www.disinfo.com/2010/03/the-police-arent-legally-obligated-to-protect-you/
http://www.firearmsandliberty.com/kasler-protection.html

Google: "Do the police have to protect you?" for more links.

 

[BobG]

I see your point, but those are not my words. I wasn't suggesting fixing people, just fixing the problem. Education is one way of attempting to fix it.

You have a way of teaching empathy?

Perhaps - http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1989122-1,00.html.

Empathy is best learned in infancy and early childhood. Very young children learn to read their parents emotions, and then others, when what the child does has an effect on the people around them. All of that cajoling with the "Pleeeeeeze" and the cutest face, all the while watching your face to see if they're making progress or have to try something else is teaching empathy.

If random good and bad happen to the child regardless of what he does, or stuff happens at 8:00 AM or 3:00 PM regardless of what he does, then there's little advantage to learning to read all of emotions of the humans around them. (In some situations, there's probably some advantage to learning to stay out of the way when the adults are drinking, stay away in the mornings, stay away when the adult's yelling into the phone, etc, but staying away also tends to lessen the chance of reading the full range of emotions.)

I guess some of these programs work, but it has to be pretty challenging to teach empathy to teenagers. It's not something normally learned in a classroom.

 

[AlexES16]

I guess most of you people are from a nation that i respect a lot, USA.
USA the powerfull country but a country that loves liberty, freedom and the pursue of happiness.

USA for me is maybe the gratest nation of all time.

Founded by revolutionaries like George Washington, a great brave men. A men who fighted back the britts. Imitate those people or even strive to be better.

 

[DaveC426913]

Words I never thought I'd hear in my lifetime...

 

[JaredJames]

Alex, I'm British. I would strongly disagree with you. I prefer the UK to the US.