News Why are we concentrating on gay specific bullying instead of all bullying?

[AlexES16]

Fighting back is not at all bad!

Defend yourself!

If you can't protect yourself how can your protect your childs, your man/woman.
Just grab a big book and hit him hard when he is giving you the back. Make him pay for trying to make you suffer.

Suicide is just a defeat withouth a fight,
Suicide is never something good, is maybe the worst things of all. And only bad people suicide becouse if you can't love yourself then you are really bad in your inside. And gays are not bad just for being gay.

 

[Char. Limit]

Fighting back is not at all bad!

Defend yourself!

If you can't protect yourself how can your protect your childs, your man/woman.
Just grab a big book and hit him hard when he is giving you the back. Make him pay for trying to make you suffer.

You sound like you're going psychotic with that last statement.

 

[AlexES16]

Alex, I'm British. I would strongly disagree with you. I prefer the UK to the US.

Ok, i like wiston churchill xD

 

[AlexES16]

You sound like you're going psychotic with that last statement.

There is some people that really are bad and start force against you just for the plesure to make you feel bad. I think they most pay.

Oh yeah I am hearing some rock right now, so yeah maybe i am in trance.

 

[Char. Limit]

There is some people that really are bad and start force against you just for the plesure to make you feel bad. I think they most pay.

Oh yeah I am hearing some rock right now, so yeah maybe i am in trance.

I listen to metal quite a lot. In fact, I am right now. Are you really that easily influenced by your music?

 

[JaredJames]

It's Winston Churchill.

And you make fighting back sound easy.

 

[AlexES16]

I listen to metal quite a lot. In fact, I am right now. Are you really that easily influenced by your music?

Well i guess i can't say jokes =).

 

[AlexES16]

It's Winston Churchill.

And you make fighting back sound easy.

Excuse me for my bad english

 

[ShawnD]

You have a way of teaching empathy?

Perhaps - http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1989122-1,00.html.

Empathy is best learned in infancy and early childhood. Very young children learn to read their parents emotions, and then others, when what the child does has an effect on the people around them.

Children learn from pain. You cut your hand and you learn how not to use a knife. You stick dinner knives in the electrical outlet and learn the hard way what that hole in the wall is all about. After crashing your bike into a tree when going down a hill too fast, you learn that speed is dangerous.

Bullies have not learned that there is any consequence for pushing people around. Other kids will not teach this. The parents obviously don't care. Teachers can't really do anything other than separate the kids, and they probably don't even have legal authority to restrain a kid. Trying to work the emotional angle doesn't work because bullies are textbook psychopaths.

The ultimate solution: bring back the paddle. Instead of paddling the butt like one would do for talking out of turn or being a smart mouth, violent offenders would get paddled in the face. Animals learn quick when there is immediate painful consequence for things they do. Ever train a dog before? It's exactly the same.

Are you really that easily influenced by your music?

I always thought it was the other way around. When I'm in a good mood, I like music. Playing music when I feel bad doesn't make me feel any better. The music reflects my mood, but does not influence it.

 

[JaredJames]

Fighting back is not at all bad!

Defend yourself!

If you are able to. It's not as simple just doing it.

If you can't protect yourself how can your protect your childs, your man/woman.
Just grab a big book and hit him hard when he is giving you the back. Make him pay for trying to make you suffer.

With a weapon I can be quite effective. But in a fist fight, friggin' useless. The simple fact is I don't live in a country where I am required to defend myself. In 21 years I have never found myself in a situation I've been required to fight whether in defence or otherwise.
I'd also add that you don't seem to understand some of the detail so far as fighting a bully goes. They're rarely alone and it's generally not a simple case of being able to fight back.

Suicide is just a defeat withouth a fight,
Suicide is never something good, is maybe the worst things of all. And only bad people suicide becouse if you can't love yourself then you are really bad in your inside. And gays are not bad just for being gay.

I don't know what this is all about, but you clearly don't understand suicide. It's not always about the reasons you gave there, and it isn't always a bad thing.

 

[AlexES16]

If you are able to. It's not as simple just doing it.


With a weapon I can be quite effective. But in a fist fight, friggin' useless. The simple fact is I don't live in a country where I am required to defend myself. In 21 years I have never found myself in a situation I've been required to fight whether in defence or otherwise.
I'd also add that you don't seem to understand some of the detail so far as fighting a bully goes. They're rarely alone and it's generally not a simple case of being able to fight back.


I don't know what this is all about, but you clearly don't understand suicide. It's not always about the reasons you gave there, and it isn't always a bad thing.

Happy for you that you don't have to fight back. Suicide maybe is good if you have a cancer or something very painful and very certain that is terminal or in a sacrifice for a good cause.
But suicide becouse you can't love yourself? That is the biggest defeat in a mans live.

 

[DaveC426913]

This thread is drifting off-topic.

 

[FlexGunship]

Full recovery!

Bullying is any act of intimidation used in an asymmetrically aggressive interaction carried out because of actual or perceived discrepancies of existence for the purpose of causing physical or emotional duress.​

Let's work on that definition!

 

[AlexES16]

I am wondering why the nation is gathering under the flag of bullying in relation specifically to gays instead of attacking the issue of bullying in general?

I was bullied in middle school, and everyone just told me that was the way it was.

I hate that bullying of anyone goes on and wish that we could take a stand against all forms of bullying?

Is it still acceptable to make fun of someone as long as they are not in a ethnic or social minority?

Retaliation is the solution. And pacifism is the gratest evil. Also giving a hard talk to the abuser parentes works to, and when i mean hard talk is that your parents also need to be ready for a fight.

Is it still acceptable to make fun of someone as long as they are not in a ethnic or social minority?? Not morally, but you also have to defend yourself with your mouth, teeths and all the body. Freedom of speech can't be violated just becouse some people can't stand by themselfs.

 

[FlexGunship]

Retaliation is the solution. And pacifism is the gratest evil.

Well... surely pacifism isn't the greatest evil. I'm a pacifist 8 hours a night.

 

[AlexES16]

Well... surely pacifism isn't the greatest evil. I'm a pacifist 8 hours a night.

Good point

 

[FlexGunship]

Good point

Hmm... it actually wasn't that good of a point. A good point would sound like this: "retaliation often denigrates the victim to the level of the bully. Assuming that the victim responds in kind, the level of aggression has been equalized and there is no social recourse."

 

[AlexES16]

This guy talks about this problem and talks about the media and gay Bullying

 

[JaredJames]

Alex, you are implying that you want everyone to simply fight (physically) with each other. That is not how civilized society works and I don't know why you believe so.

It is one thing to defend yourself, but your posts are indicating that you want people to do more than that. This is wrong. If you go beyond defending yourself, you can be in just as much trouble.
It's called unjustifiable use of force. If you can't show there was a need to use that level of violence, you will go to prison (in the UK, not sure how the US works with regards to self defence without a firearm).

Advocating that we use violence to attack bullies and stop them won't end the problem. There are far more levels than simply "he bullied me, I hit him, he stopped bullying". Fighting back doesn't always stop it. Which is why you need a better punishment system in place. You need to show these people that they will be caught and punished to deter them from bullying in the first place. And also that people can tell someone about being bullied and it will be taken seriously and acted upon.

 

[AlexES16]

Hmm... it actually wasn't that good of a point. A good point would sound like this: "retaliation often denigrates the victim to the level of the bully. Assuming that the victim responds in kind, the level of aggression has been equalized and there is no social recourse."

Justice is good, and some times you have to make them pay. Fight one day to be free? I think it worths the effort.

 

[AlexES16]

Alex, you are implying that you want everyone to simply fight (physically) with each other. That is not how civilized society works and I don't know why you believe so.

It is one thing to defend yourself, but your posts are indicating that you want people to do more than that. This is wrong. If you go beyond defending yourself, you can be in just as much trouble.
It's called unjustifiable use of force. If you can't show there was a need to use that level of violence, you will go to prison (in the UK, not sure how the US works with regards to self defence without a firearm).

Advocating that we use violence to attack bullies and stop them won't end the problem. There are far more levels than simply "he bullied me, I hit him, he stopped bullying". Fighting back doesn't always stop it. Which is why you need a better punishment system in place. You need to show these people that they will be caught and punished to deter them from bullying in the first place.

Which is why you need a better punishment system in place? To make them live a lie?

You are right when you don't have to use unjustifiable use of force, but a lot of teens get their lifes destroyed and some even kill themselfs. Those that are more affected are the ones that have to fight back.

 

[Al68]

Bullying can go far deeper and isn't always a case of physical violence. Emotional and verbal bullying can be far more devastating and can be much more difficult to spot.

"Emotional and verbal bullying" has a far different solution, though: Ignore it. Unlike assault, we don't imprison people for calling someone names. And unlike assault, even the smallest child can be taught the not-so advanced skill of ignoring someone.

Even in the case of violent acts, though, there are both short term and long term "solutions" that must be considered. It seems like you are referring to the correct long term solution, while Alex is referring to the short term solution of fighting back. (I don't think he meant to attack the bully the next day.)

Pacifism by victims only leads to more, not less, violence. As a short term solution, it is analogous to a long term solution of never prosecuting assault.

 

[JaredJames]

"Ignore it"? You really don't have a clue about bullying and its effects.

Like I said, defend yourself. Fight back. But it appears Alex is proposing going further than simply defending yourself. Especially based on the videos he posted.

 

[DaveC426913]

"Emotional and verbal bullying" has a far different solution, though: Ignore it. Unlike assault, we don't imprison people for calling someone names. And unlike assault, even the smallest child can be taught the not-so advanced skill of ignoring someone.

No Al68, you do not simply ignore it.

At the risk of invoking a very flammable strawman, I point you to the insitutionalized racism of blacks up until the 60's. Verbal and emotional bullying is oppression.

 

[Al68]

"Ignore it"? You really don't have a clue about bullying and its effects.

What are you talking about? I was referring to "emotional and verbal" bullying, not physical bullying. Did you misunderstand my post?

Do you disagree that children should be taught how to ignore name-calling instead of (physically) fighting over it?

 

[Dembadon]

"Emotional and verbal bullying" has a far different solution, though: Ignore it. Unlike assault, we don't imprison people for calling someone names. And unlike assault, even the smallest child can be taught the not-so advanced skill of ignoring someone.

...

I thought there were/are laws against threatening language, though. For instance, if someone were to say, "I'm going to kill you unless...," and they had the ability to do so, I was under the impression that such acts could be criminalized if they were committed by someone who could reasonably be taken seriously. Conditional threat laws probably vary by county/state, but I believe they're enforced.

 

[Al68]

No Al68, you do not simply ignore it.

Yes, in fact, I do. If it escalates to a physical attack, I fight, but never before.

At the risk of invoking a very flammable strawman, I point you to the insitutionalized racism of blacks up until the 60's. Verbal and emotional bullying is oppression.

That's a strawman, indeed, since that institutionalized racism consisted of far more than name-calling. And note that we never outlawed name-calling.

If you think "verbal and emotional bullying" was the biggest problem of the 60's, I would suggest watching a documentary or two about it.

 

[Al68]

I thought there were/are laws against threatening language, though. For instance, if someone were to say, "I'm going to kill you unless...," and they had the ability to do so, I was under the impression that such acts could be criminalized if they were committed by someone who could reasonably be taken seriously. Conditional threat laws probably vary by county/state, but I believe they're enforced.

Of course threats of violence are illegal, but that constitutes physical bullying, not verbal/emotional bullying.

 

[FlexGunship]

I thought there were/are laws against threatening language, though. For instance, if someone were to say, "I'm going to kill you unless...," and they had the ability to do so, I was under the impression that such acts could be criminalized if they were committed by someone who could reasonably be taken seriously. Conditional threat laws probably vary by county/state, but I believe they're enforced.

What are you talking about? I was referring to "emotional and verbal" bullying, not physical bullying. Did you misunderstand my post?

Do you disagree that children should be taught how to ignore name-calling instead of (physically) fighting over it?

No Al68, you do not simply ignore it.

At the risk of invoking a very flammable strawman, I point you to the insitutionalized racism of blacks up until the 60's. Verbal and emotional bullying is oppression.

Okay, the thread of discussion is kind of deteriorating. Let's see if we can reassemble it.

Bullying is characterized as an assault on the well-being of an individual. Emotion and verbal bullying are not trivial actions. Frankly, if you believe that "ignoring it" is an option, then you have revealed that you don't understand the phenomenon.

Threat-induced coercion is a crime. But is not necessarily bullying since it has, at it's core, the goal of performing a crime, not the actual emotional or physical determent of the coerced.

 

[JaredJames]

What are you talking about? I was referring to "emotional and verbal" bullying, not physical bullying. Did you misunderstand my post?

Do you disagree that children should be taught how to ignore name-calling instead of (physically) fighting over it?

No misunderstanding. You do not ignore verbal / emotional bullying. You say you don't agree with pacifism when it comes to physical bullying and yet you advocate it in this situation.

No, don't fight over verbal insults, but you also don't have to be quiet about it. Bullying, regardless of what form it takes, is bullying none the less and should be treated equally.

 

[berkeman]

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