Why arthropod has not evolved to be huge?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the question of why arthropods have not evolved to achieve larger sizes. Participants explore various biological and environmental factors that may limit the size of these organisms, touching on aspects of their anatomy, physiology, and evolutionary history.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the organ systems of arthropods may not support larger sizes due to limitations in their respiratory system and structural integrity of their exoskeleton.
  • Concerns are raised about the risks of predation during molting, which could be exacerbated in larger organisms.
  • There is a discussion about the mechanical limitations of chitin, which may not be able to support increased body volume effectively.
  • Some participants propose that the vision of arthropods may not be adequate for hunting larger prey, although this point is debated.
  • One participant mentions the possibility that arthropods may have been larger in the past, such as during the Cretaceous period, when environmental conditions were different.
  • There is a suggestion to compare the respiratory systems of arthropods with those of other organisms to better understand the limitations.
  • Participants express uncertainty about whether there is a definitive answer to the question, indicating that multiple conjectures could be valid.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the reasons for the size limitations of arthropods. Multiple competing views and conjectures remain, with some participants agreeing on certain points while others challenge or refine those ideas.

Contextual Notes

Limitations in the discussion include unresolved assumptions about the efficiency of respiratory systems and the mechanical properties of chitin, as well as the need for more scientific comparisons and scaling laws to support claims.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to those studying evolutionary biology, entomology, or anyone curious about the physiological constraints of arthropods and their evolutionary history.

Tyto alba
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Q: Why arthropods have not evolved to be huge? 1. Homework Statement
Arthropods have not been able to achieve great size because
(1) the type of organ systems they possesses could not support·such a development
(2) they would be unable to successfully reproduce
(3) chitin is brittle and must be thick to bear the pull of muscles
(4) their vision is not good enough to hunt larger prey

2. The attempt at a solution

I went through berkeley.edu and figured out three points:

1.A large organism molting will have the huge risk of predation. It would need to hide rather frequently as the skeleton hardens.
2. The appendages which are mostly tubular chitinous structures won't support the shear increase in body volume which increase 8 folds with ever 2 fold increase in length.
3. The present respiratory system won't be efficient.

So,

(1) the type of organ systems they possesses could not support·such a development - Not all systems' a problem
(2) they would be unable to successfully reproduce -ruled out looks not an issue, early maturation, high number of offsprings
(3) chitin is brittle and must be thick to bear the pull of muscles-yeah, if the volume increases and the exoskeleton doesn't become thick enough it won't be able to support the muscles
(4) their vision is not good enough to hunt larger prey-looks not an issueSo answer 3 ?
 
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Tyto alba said:
3. The present respiratory system won't be efficient.
Tyto alba said:
(1) the type of organ systems they possesses could not support·such a development - Not all systems' a problem
You just need one system to be not up to the task.
 
Tyto alba said:
Q: Why arthropods have not evolved to be huge?

I went through berkeley.edu and figured out three points:

1.A large organism molting will have the huge risk of predation. It would need to hide rather frequently as the skeleton hardens.
2. The appendages which are mostly tubular chitinous structures won't support the shear increase in body volume which increase 8 folds with ever 2 fold increase in length.
3. The present respiratory system won't be efficient.
maybe there is no "right answer" to this question. Yours appear to be me reasonable conjectures. How can you sharpen them to something more scientific? For 3 can you make a comparison with other organism types? Aquatic and terrestrial. Can you beef up 2 with some more known scaling laws for physiological functions?
 
Bandersnatch said:
You just need one system to be not up to the task.

Though you have a point thinking about how the MCQs are solved I don't think one should go with this. Sometime when one is unsure one has to weigh the different options and having a plural form also knocks down one of them.

epenguin said:
maybe there is no "right answer" to this question.

I think you are right.

epenguin said:
How can you sharpen them to something more scientific? For 3 can you make a comparison with other organism types? Aquatic and terrestrial. Can you beef up 2 with some more known scaling laws for physiological functions?

To be honest I avoided doing that as it will take some good amount of time, going through the arthropods resp. sys and other related stuffs. I wanted to know that if my conjectures are right, I think they are now.
I'll return to this question once my impending Exams are over. Thank you :)
 
FWIW, the answer that came to my mind first after reading the thread title and before seeing any of the options, would be that the respiratory system would not work.
 
Maybe they were bigger in e.g. The cretaceous when everything was, different temperature and oxygen levels.
 

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