Why Can't I Solve y''=3/y²+5? Explained

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the differential equation y'' = 3/y² + 5, focusing on the methods of solving it and the challenges associated with integrating both sides. Participants explore the implications of notation and the complexity of solutions for similar equations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether they can integrate both sides of the equation directly to find y, suggesting a misunderstanding of the notation involved.
  • Another participant clarifies that y'' represents the second derivative with respect to time, indicating that integration should be performed with respect to time, not y.
  • A later reply proposes an alternative method for solving ODEs of the form y''(x) = f(y(x)), suggesting that multiplying by y' and integrating can lead to a first-order separable ODE.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the complexity of the solutions, noting that they have not yet studied non-linear differential equations.
  • Links to Wolfram Alpha are provided to illustrate the complexity of solutions for related equations, indicating that the solutions may be intricate.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need to consider the correct variable for integration, but there is no consensus on the best approach to solve the differential equation or the nature of its solutions.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in their understanding of non-linear differential equations, which may affect their ability to solve the given equation. There is also a recognition that the solutions could be complicated, but no specific mathematical steps are resolved.

Teacame
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If I have a DE like this:
[tex]y''=\frac{3}{y^{2}}+5[/tex]
Why can't I just integrate both sides to get:
[tex]y'=-\frac{3}{y^{1}}+5y[/tex]?
And then integrate again to solve for y?
 
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Teacame said:
If I have a DE like this:
[tex]y''=\frac{3}{y^{2}}+5[/tex]
Why can't I just integrate both sides to get:
[tex]y'=-\frac{3}{y^{1}}+5y[/tex]?
And then integrate again to solve for y?

Because ##y''## means ##\frac{d^2y}{dt^2}##

So, you would need to integrate both sides wrt ##t##.

If you let ##\frac{d^2f}{dy^2} = \frac{3}{y^{2}}+5##

Where ##f## is a function of ##y##, then you can simply integrate both sides wrt ##y##.
 
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PeroK said:
Because ##y''## means ##\frac{d^2y}{dt^2}##

So, you would need to integrate both sides wrt ##t##.

If you let ##\frac{d^2f}{dy^2} = \frac{3}{y^{2}}+5##

Where ##f## is a function of ##y##, then you can simply integrate both sides wrt ##y##.
Oh that was really dumb of me, didn't think about the notation enough. I'm not supposed to actually solve this, I was just wondering. It looks like the solution is extremely complicated so I probably can't anyway: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=y''=3/y^2+5

In fact, the solution for just y''=1/y looks complicated: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=y''=1/y

I haven't actually studied non-linear DEs yet.
 
ODEs of the form [itex]y''(x) = f(y(x))[/itex] can in principle be solved by multiplying by [itex]y'[/itex] and integrating with respect to [itex]x[/itex] to obtain [tex] \frac12(y')^2 = F(y)[/tex] where [itex]F(y) = \frac12 y'(0)^2 + \int_{y(0)}^{y} f(s)\,ds[/itex] is an antiderivative of [itex]f[/itex]. The resulting first-order ODE is separable: [tex] y' = \pm\sqrt{2F(y)}[/tex] where some care is needed in determining the sign.
 
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