Why do astronomers stick with old languages like IDL and FORTRAN?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the use of programming languages in astronomy, particularly the preference for older languages like FORTRAN and IDL compared to newer languages such as Python. Participants explore the reasons behind the continued use of these older languages and the implications for graduate students in astronomy.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note a movement towards newer languages like Python, questioning whether there is resistance to this change within astronomy.
  • One participant asks what problems a mass migration away from FORTRAN would solve, indicating a need for clarity on the benefits of such a transition.
  • Another participant observes that other departments seem to be migrating away from FORTRAN before astronomy, suggesting a potential disconnect in the adoption of new technologies.
  • Concerns are raised about the reliance on a long history of tested code in astronomy, which may contribute to the slower transition away from older languages.
  • FORTRAN is described as trusted and well-understood, with some participants arguing that the efficiency and simplicity of older tools justify their continued use.
  • It is mentioned that while FORTRAN usage is declining, languages like C and C++ are becoming more common for large-scale software, with Python also gaining traction in astronomy.
  • One participant emphasizes that good code, regardless of the language, remains valuable and that translating older code to modern languages may not be worthwhile.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the transition from older programming languages to newer ones, with no consensus on the necessity or timing of such a migration. Some see value in maintaining older languages, while others advocate for adopting newer technologies.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in understanding the specific reasons for the slower adoption of newer languages in astronomy, including the historical context of code usage and the varying needs of different departments.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in programming languages in scientific research, particularly in astronomy, as well as those exploring the dynamics of technology adoption in academic settings.

Simfish
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I've heard that there's some movement towards newer languages like Python. But is there some resistance to this movement? Is there a similar problem with physics departments?

Do astronomers prefer their grad students to be fluent with FORTRAN or with Python? I know one professor who doesn't know much Python yet, but who recognizes the future of Python, so he let's his students do work in Python.
 
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What problem would it solve to have a mass migration away from FORTRAN?
 
Good point. I just have the impression that other departments are migrating away from FORTRAN first, and I'm wondering why those departments are doing it before astronomy (though that may be more relevant to the interests of those departments).
 
Simfish said:
and I'm wondering why those departments are doing it before astronomy.
They don't have the same base of tested working complex code going back 50years?
 
FORTRAN is trusted and well-understood. Why change? For the same reason, why transition from SAS if you can get what you want out of that package? They are really simple basic tools that run like a screaming monkey on even a base-level PC, so you can get a lot of work done in a short period of time, and run multiple trials with variables to compare them easily. Those reasons are good enough, IMO
 
In astronomy the use of Fortran actually is going down. Most serious large scale software is written in C or C++. Interactive data analysis indeed is very often done in IDL, but Python is definitely gaining some user base in astronomy now too. Good code, written in a language however old, will of course stay in use. Translating it to something 'modern' is a waste of time.
 

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