Why do lots of people think that people choose to be gay?

[Siv]

Well, the Bible certainly does have a lot of very negative things to say about homosexuality.

 

[AlephNumbers]

What it really boils down to is if i claim to be gay and christian i am NOT the "right kind"of christian. It is their way or the hoghway. Disgustingly judgemental and nothing christian in their message.

If one is to follow the bible literally, then I suppose being gay and being Christian is indeed incompatible. But the bible also says Christians cannot eat shellfish! Ask your friends if they abstain from eating shellfish! Hah!

I'm not sure what my point is, here. But don't ever feel bad about being the way you are. If you are around people who make you feel bad about yourself, or that try to make you feel inferior, I would suggest finding new people to be around.

 

[gleem]

Well, the Bible certainly does have a lot of very negative things to say about homosexuality.

Indeed it would seem, I am no biblical scholar but how can one believe or necessarily accept the modern day interpretation of any Biblical text when it conflicts with current knowledge and understanding of our world in view of the fact that it has been re-translated for so many times over the thousands of years with connotations and usage of words and phrases constantly changing. The bible is full of texts that are hard to interpret. Even though the bible is believed to be the inspired word of God, so would all of the translations. See the reference for issues in translations about Sodom and Gomorrah http://www.religioustolerance.org/hombibg193.htm . I believe that the gay lifestyle as we currently understand it is not addressed in the Bible. God may originate the laws but man issues the regulations to be followed and just like human laws some of the regulations were not intended.

 

[ecoo]

How exactly can a regular man not be attracted to women? Was there some kind of mutation thousands of years ago that suddenly changed a man's basic brain chemistry so now visual stimuli of another male causes the man to release the attraction chemicals? To be born gay would mean that the basic human brain chemistry would be tremendously different, would it not? Being gay seems like more of a cultural phenomenon rather than a biological one.

 

[DaveC426913]

How exactly can a regular man not be attracted to women? Was there some kind of mutation thousands of years ago that suddenly changed a man's basic brain chemistry so now visual stimuli of another male causes the man to release the attraction chemicals? To be born gay would mean that the basic human brain chemistry would be tremendously different, would it not? Being gay seems like more of a cultural phenomenon rather than a biological one.

1] The chemistry involved in attraction is a continuum, not a one/zero switch. In any population, you will find men who are dominant, and men who are submissive, and everything in between. You will find preferences for highly feminine body forms, and preferences for less feminine forms. Some men are demure and are attracted to strength, physique, and masculine traits. Women to feminine traits etc.

By the way, there is a distinction between gender self-identification and sexual orientation. Some people are attracted to women, yet they self-identify as female. All combinations are represented.

A close friend of mine was born as a male, yet from a very young age self-identified as a female trapped in a male's body. She completed her gender reassignment and is now perfectly fulfilled as a women. This has never changed her sexual attraction to women though.2] It has been observed in rat populations that, when population reaches a certain density, homosexual behaviors begin to arise. There is some speculation that it is an adaptation that allows sexual outlet without the warring that might arise from over-competition for females, as well as keep population growth down.

I'm not suggesting this applies to humans; I am simply pointing out that homosexuality as a phenomenon occurs in animal populations, suggesting it is not simply a cultural thing.

Also means it's not a sudden change, in humans ,just a few thousand years ago, as you were speculating.

 

[Eirene42]

So, we have a society which still today puts a massive amount of hatred onto people who are gay; we reject them, ridicule them, despise them, ostracise them, reject them from our family, etc etc, and yet we try and suggest these people actually 'choose' to be gay? Why would they? Why would a teenager or young adult choose to take on a characteristic which may cause their family to reject them, and society to cast them out? Of course it must be something you are born with and have no choice over.

 

[Siv]

Indeed it would seem, I am no biblical scholar but how can one believe or necessarily accept the modern day interpretation of any Biblical text when it conflicts with current knowledge and understanding of our world in view of the fact that it has been re-translated for so many times over the thousands of years with connotations and usage of words and phrases constantly changing. The bible is full of texts that are hard to interpret. Even though the bible is believed to be the inspired word of God, so would all of the translations. See the reference for issues in translations about Sodom and Gomorrah http://www.religioustolerance.org/hombibg193.htm . I believe that the gay lifestyle as we currently understand it is not addressed in the Bible. God may originate the laws but man issues the regulations to be followed and just like human laws some of the regulations were not intended.

Well, I am an atheist, and I believe all religions are myths. So I would go one step further than you

 

[Siv]

How exactly can a regular man not be attracted to women? Was there some kind of mutation thousands of years ago that suddenly changed a man's basic brain chemistry so now visual stimuli of another male causes the man to release the attraction chemicals? To be born gay would mean that the basic human brain chemistry would be tremendously different, would it not? Being gay seems like more of a cultural phenomenon rather than a biological one.

I know Dave has already responded to this ... but its important to understand that all behaviour is a result of neurochemical impulses in the brain, which can and do vary.

There are multiple evolutionary "explanations" for reality. The one I like the most, however, is Dawkins' suggestion that homosexuality could be an "unitended" phenotypic effect in modern times. Like for e.g., if the genes were in a breast-fed environment, some other behaviour would result, but in a bottle-fed environment, the behaviour we know today as homosexual or bisexual, results.

 

[ecoo]

1] It has been observed in rat populations that, when population reaches a certain density, homosexual behaviors begin the arise. There is some speculation that it is an adaptation that allows sexual outlet without the warring that might arise from over-competition for females, as well as keep population growth down.

I'm not suggesting this applies to humans; I am simply pointing out that homosexuality as a phenomenon occurs in animal populations, suggesting it is not simply a cultural thing.

Also means it's not a sudden change just a few thousand years ago, as you were speculating.

2] The chemistry involved in attraction is a continuum, not a one/zero switch. In any population, you will find men who are dominant, and men who are submissive, and everything in between. You will find preferences for highly feminine body forms, and preferences for less feminine forms. Some men are demure and are attracted to strength, physique, and masculine traits.

That's another possibility, or maybe gays were born with some kind of mental difference that they misdirect as a liking towards men. But who knows. I guess you can call gays vestigial humans if it's purely biological!

There's no doubt that the politically correct ideology is that gays are born that way, but again, it could be a mixture of both subconscious chemicals and them misdirecting their feelings. In a society where everyone knows all the different types of people, there's no doubt that it is easy for a person to classify themselves as a specific "type" of person, such as being gay during their self discovery periods (e.g. puberty).

 

[Bandersnatch]

Sorry ecoo, old chap, I fat fingered the like button where I just wanted to watch the thread. Carry on.

Maybe I should contribute something.
There's a book called 'Biological Exuberance' by Bruce Bagemihl* documenting homosexual behaviour among various animal species. I'm not sure if a flamingo ever goes through a self discovery period, or if a raven knows all the different kinds of ravens to identify with.

That every organism and its behaviour is a product of both nature and nurture goes without saying, but that still doesn't imply choice.

(*the book is marred with some new age 'philosophy', though)

 

[lavinia]

- I have a seriously religious friend who accepts that being gay may be genetic. He argues that this still means that the person should not lead a gay life and that his purpose on Earth is to fight the moral battle against his inborn tendency. To him being innately gay is not bad. It's choosing to live a gay life style that is bad. So he believes that people should choose not to be gay.

- I have another friend who is now completely gay. But he likes women and pursued them in earlier years. He also has a daughter and has been married twice. He has chosen to be gay.

As a psychologist, he believes that there are several reasons why men are gay, genetic being one of them, and thinks that latency is common among apparently straight men. From this point of view, it would seem that homosexual tendencies are wide spread and that being "gay" for many, involves some choice or perhaps an experience that awakens latent feelings. My gay hairdresser agrees and says, "It is like opening Pandora's box."

 

[gleem]

It's choosing to live a gay life style that is bad. So he believes that people should choose not to be gay.

How can choosing what you are make you culpable . After God created the world He was to have said in Genesis ...that All was Good. I have been always told that you are never tempted beyond which you are incapable of resisting. So I guess some people come into this world with a lot more baggage that others having to deny what you truly are.

Certainly there are degrees of gayness from the overtly, undeniably, apologetically gays of the past that accepted whatever sanctions society encumbered them with to the to the more timid who previously suppressed their feeling and who have come out of the "closet" because it is safe to do so. This may account for at least some of this latency effect. The anti gay feeling is so strong and so widespread you wonder why one would "choose" that life style if it where not a significant force.

 

[lavinia]

How can choosing what you are make you culpable . After God created the world He was to have said in Genesis ...that All was Good. I have been always told that you are never tempted beyond which you are incapable of resisting. So I guess some people come into this world with a lot more baggage that others having to deny what you truly are.

I think he believes that the only reason any of us exist incarnate is that "God created us for a purpose". Each person has a different purpose and it seems to relate to unfinished evolution of the soul prior to going to Heaven. Sort of a Karma thing. If you are gay, then God created you as gay and had some reason for doing this. Since the Bible clearly condemns homosexuality - at least according to him - I have not read the Bible - then God's purpose for you must for some reason require that you resist your nature to comply with divine moral law. That's how the reasoning goes.

Certainly there are degrees of gayness from the overtly, undeniably, apologetically gays of the past that accepted whatever sanctions society encumbered them with to the to the more timid who previously suppressed their feeling and who have come out of the "closet" because it is safe to do so. This may account for at least some of this latency effect. The anti gay feeling is so strong and so widespread you wonder why one would "choose" that life style if it where not a significant force.

I couldn't agree more. My friend lives in a extremely homophobic society and has to hide his life from everyone except his family, and a few friends. Interestingly, he has conjectured that homophobia is often a coverup of latent feelings.

 

[Siv]

My friend lives in a extremely homophobic society and has to hide his life from everyone except his family, and a few friends. Interestingly, he has conjectured that homophobia is often a coverup of latent feelings.

Not sure about that. I think that a lot of the apparent "homophobic" attitudes are a tactic to hide one's innate ignorance and insecurity about their own sexuality !

Ignorance is the cause a of a lot of irrationality and atrocities in our world.

 

[lavinia]

Not sure about that. I think that a lot of the apparent "homophobic" attitudes are a tactic to hide one's innate ignorance and insecurity about their own sexuality !

Ignorance is the cause a of a lot of irrationality and atrocities in our world.

I couldn't agree with you more. Ignorance and prejudice dehumanize peoples views of others.

 

[Evo]

We have answered this repeatedly and it's drifting into religion, so time to shut this down.