Why do neutrinos escape the sun's core faster than photons?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the differences in the escape mechanisms of neutrinos and photons from the sun's core, focusing on their interactions with matter. Participants explore the fundamental properties of these particles and how these properties influence their likelihood of interacting with atoms, particularly in the context of the dense environment of the sun's core.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the fundamental differences between photons and neutrinos regarding their interactions with atoms, noting that neutrinos are less likely to interact due to their small size and the nature of their forces.
  • Another participant explains that photons interact via the electromagnetic force, while neutrinos only interact through the weak force, which is significantly weaker.
  • There is confusion expressed about how photons and neutrinos "hit" atoms, with one participant suggesting that the wave-like behavior of these particles may play a role.
  • A participant notes that photons are attracted by the electromagnetic force of surrounding atoms, prompting further inquiry into how uncharged photons can be influenced by this force.
  • One participant asserts that neutrinos are nearly collisionless and can penetrate substantial amounts of matter, contrasting with photons, which are described as more sociable and prone to interactions.
  • A later reply mentions that photons can only travel a few millimeters in dense matter before being absorbed and remitted, which helps clarify the conceptual differences in their escape from the sun's core.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding and confusion regarding the interactions of photons and neutrinos, with no clear consensus on the specifics of how these interactions occur. Multiple competing views on the nature of these interactions remain present throughout the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Some statements rely on assumptions about particle behavior and interactions that may not be fully resolved within the discussion. The complexity of wave-particle duality and the specific mechanisms of interaction in dense environments are not thoroughly explored.

SHISHKABOB
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Hi guys, I have a question about the difference in the time it takes a neutrino to escape the core of the sun compared to the time it takes a photon to escape from the core of the sun.

Basically, my question is: what is the difference between photons and neutrinos that makes neutrinos very unlikely to interact with atoms, while photons are very likely to interact with atoms?

I know that neutrinos are very small compared to the sizes of atoms and electrons, but aren't photons very small too? They don't really have a size, right?

I've thought about it a bit, and maybe I've answered it myself: since electrons "orbit" the nucleus of an atom in the electron cloud, they are effectively "everywhere" in their orbit at once, right? And then since the atoms are so tightly packed together in the core, the electron clouds are very close together too, right? So then basically it comes down to the fact that the neutrino hardly ever interacts with electrons and other particles, while photons end up getting sucked into an atom all the time.

I'm not 100% certain on that though, could someone help clear this up?
 
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Hi SHISHKABOB! :smile:
SHISHKABOB said:
… what is the difference between photons and neutrinos that makes neutrinos very unlikely to interact with atoms, while photons are very likely to interact with atoms?

photons feel the electromagnetic force (and the weak force), but neutrinos only feel the weak force …

and the electromagnetic force is a lot stronger than the weak force

(the clue's in the name! :wink:)​
 
tiny-tim said:
Hi SHISHKABOB! :smile:


photons feel the electromagnetic force (and the weak force), but neutrinos only feel the weak force …

and the electromagnetic force is a lot stronger than the weak force

(the clue's in the name! :wink:)​

that makes sense, thanks

so then when a photon is emitted, it is attracted by the electromagnetic force of the atoms around it? I guess I am confused about how exactly the photon or neutrino "hits" the atom...
 
SHISHKABOB said:
I guess I am confused about how exactly the photon or neutrino "hits" the atom...

oooh, I'd rather let someone alse answer that. :redface:

I think it has more to do with the photon and the atom behaving as waves than as classical particles
 
tiny-tim said:
oooh, I'd rather let someone alse answer that. :redface:

I think it has more to do with the photon and the atom behaving as waves than as classical particles

that sounds reasonable, thank you very much anyways
 
SHISHKABOB said:
so then when a photon is emitted, it is attracted by the electromagnetic force of the atoms around it? I guess I am confused about how exactly the photon or neutrino "hits" the atom...

How are uncharged photons attracted by electromagnetic force?
 
Oldfart said:
How are uncharged photons attracted by electromagnetic force?

A photon practically IS the EM force. It's electric and magnetic fields oscillate back and forth so it is overall uncharged, but every time it gets to a peak in it's electric field it is either positive or negatively charged.
 
Drakkith said:
A photon practically IS the EM force. It's electric and magnetic fields oscillate back and forth so it is overall uncharged, but every time it gets to a peak in it's electric field it is either positive or negatively charged.

OK, that's informative! Thanks, Drak!
 
The big deal is neutrinos are nearly collisionless. A neutrino can penetrate a light year of lead with relative ease, photons are far more sociable. Dark matter is even more anti social than neutrinos.
 
  • #10
Okay so I went back and read some stuff on it again, and I think I found the solution to my puzzlement. Photons only go a few millimeters, apparently, before being absorbed and remitted. A few millimeters of incredibly dense star core matter is still a lot of hydrogen atoms that it "missed". It makes sense conceptually to me now, thanks for the help guys.
 

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