Why Do Some Sci-Fi Reboots Fail to Impress?

[DaveC426913]

I just watched the first tv premiere of Batwoman. I don't like it much. It's like Arrow (but Arrow more fun). The story is pretty dull. However if you find it good. Let me know why you like it.

Yeah. Watched the first half hour. Bored. Turned it off. Watched The Rookie instead.

 

[DaveC426913]

9. jurassic park
11. star ship trooper
14.terminator

Sorry... reboots?

As far as I know these films have sequels, but no reboots.

 

[new6ton]

Sorry... reboots?

As far as I know these films have sequels, but no reboots.

I thought reboots included sequels. So there are many lemon sequels as well?

So why are many sequels lemons (except Marvel)?

 

[DaveC426913]

So why are many sequels lemons...?

Reasons are legion.

• An adage from the music industry: "You have your whole life to produce your first big hit. And one year to produce the next."
• There is pressure to produce sequels in a short time frame because the actors age out or move on to other projects.
• Same with writers. Often, it's the writing that causes a flop. First films may go through years of polishing, including complete rewrites and complete changeover of writers. For sequels, you've already got a formula, why squander it? And you don't need A-list writers (with A-list salaries) to modify a formula.
• You want to ride on the popularity of the first while it's still popular, causing further pressure.
• Sequels often require less outlay of cash, since so much of the resources are already there. You can make a tidy profit if it only costs a fraction as much.

 

[DennisN]

I thought reboots included sequels. So there are many lemon sequels as well?

Oh yes. I'd say it's quite unusual for a sequel to be as good or better than the original.
Here are a few sequels that I think are very good:

• The Empire Strikes Back (Star Wars)
• Aliens
• Terminator 2
• The Godfather 2 (not SF as far as I know )
• Mad Max 2: The Road Warrior (not SF, it's a postapocalyptic movie)
• Shrek 2, Toy Story 2 (animated comedies)
• The Dark Knight (Batman, sequel to Batman Begins, not SF)

And the ancient alien concept is so tiresome

...though I have to add that I enjoyed Stargate. Particularly the first 20 or 30 minutes which I think are awesome.

 

[new6ton]

Why do you guys like science fiction?

I like science fiction to give me ideas of realities better.

On earth. Bangladesh doesn't represent what a normal country should be. So in this galaxy, our Earth now doesn't represent what is supposed to be the normal, correct?

I was watching a rerun of Aquaman 2018 last night (halfway). In the movie, the interviewee announced on TV said the Atlanteans were responsible for the destruction. The anchorman said nonsense, the interviewee said we have already an Atlantean among us, Aquaman.

I get pissed off whenever I watch a science ficiton in which I didn't learn a new insight. Then I consider it waste of time. How about you?

In Aquaman. The insight is that there could be some cybernetic slaves of Atlantis trying to abduct and experiment on humans as some claimed.

Also remember our science now is just science based on emergence. I guess there will be new laws of physics when we get into the fundamental physics (such as Neo-Ether dynamics?) right?

Or do I need to go see a psychiatrist? :)

 

[WWGD]

Why do you guys like science fiction?

I like science fiction to give me ideas of realities better.

On earth. Bangladesh doesn't represent what a normal country should be. So in this galaxy, our Earth now doesn't represent what is supposed to be the normal, correct?

I was watching a rerun of Aquaman 2018 last night (halfway). In the movie, the interviewee announced on TV said the Atlanteans were responsible for the destruction. The anchorman said nonsense, the interviewee said we have already an Atlantean among us, Aquaman.

I get pissed off whenever I watch a science ficiton in which I didn't learn a new insight. Then I consider it waste of time. How about you?

In Aquaman. The insight is that there could be some cybernetic slaves of Atlantis trying to abduct and experiment on humans as some claimed.

Also remember our science now is just science based on emergence. I guess there will be new laws of physics when we get into the fundamental physics (such as Neo-Ether dynamics?) right?

Or do I need to go see a psychiatrist? :)

I can see the consideration of alternative realities as being what is attractive in SF. But times have changed.
Nowadays, it seems the reality of many incredible things going on that takes away a lot of the attraction from SF. Tons of interesting stuff a few keyboard strokes away. Not sure I understood your point about Bangladesh though.

 

[DennisN]

Why do you guys like science fiction?

For me, there are multiple reasons. I've been interested in both space and science since I was young.

And I like good stories. For me, the story is the most essential thing when it comes to movies.
You can put great actors and stunning effects in a movie, but if the story is bad, the movie will suffer. One recent example of this is, in my opinion, The Last Jedi. A movie with extraordinary effects but with a script that is seriously leaking and problematic.

On the contrary, if you've got a good story but maybe not the very best actors nor the best effects, you can still make a good movie. Examples: Total Recall (which has a good story in my opinion).

Another reason I like science fiction is because the stories often are visionary. Here, I mainly think of the SF books I've read.

 

[new6ton]

I can see the consideration of alternative realities as being what is attractive in SF. But times have changed.
Nowadays, it seems the reality of many incredible things going on that takes away a lot of the attraction from SF. Tons of interesting stuff a few keyboard strokes away. Not sure I understood your point about Bangladesh though.

Maybe I'm escaping from reality?

But then I'm looking forward for some incredible things like Michio Kaku presenting himself at the UN assembly similar to this famous opening speech by Jean Grey:

"Ladies and gentlemen, we are now seeing the beginnings of another stage of human evolution. These mutations manifest at puberty and are often triggered by periods of heightened emotional stress."

 

[WWGD]

Maybe I'm escaping from reality?

But then I'm looking forward for some incredible things like Michio Kaku presenting himself at the UN assembly similar to this famous opening speech by Jean Grey:

"Ladies and gentlemen, we are now seeing the beginnings of another stage of human evolution. These mutations manifest at puberty and are often triggered by periods of heightened emotional stress."

I am excited but concerned too, that these changes are implemented with caution.

 

[member 656954]

The director's attempts at contrasting inner city Old Detroit with suburban housing is thwarted by the high-tech nature of the story. Experimental cyborgs and large armories require large capital investment.

So agree, @Klystron. "What about the economics?" is often my thought in sci-fi, and esp. where the story has vast fleets of spaceships fighting each other with huge crews of skilled Navy types. Nonsensical...

Just like Ad Astra's monkey's-in-space sequence, which happens on a space station (the design of which reminded me of Thunderbird 5) but it is sitting out in space somewhere between Earth and Mars. Getting anything out there is going to be expensive, people need bonus $$ to work out there, and resupply is going to be problematic. The payoff for such R&D has to be insanely profitable. But it's cheaper still to put it in LEO, so why out there? Vanity project? Secret lair for a villainous master criminal? Stupid plot device for a sad sack story? Who knows, when it makes no sense...it really makes no sense!

 

[new6ton]

So agree, @Klystron. "What about the economics?" is often my thought in sci-fi, and esp. where the story has vast fleets of spaceships fighting each other with huge crews of skilled Navy types. Nonsensical...

Just like Ad Astra's monkey's-in-space sequence, which happens on a space station (the design of which reminded me of Thunderbird 5) but it is sitting out in space somewhere between Earth and Mars. Getting anything out there is going to be expensive, people need bonus $$ to work out there, and resupply is going to be problematic. The payoff for such R&D has to be insanely profitable. But it's cheaper still to put it in LEO, so why out there? Vanity project? Secret lair for a villainous master criminal? Stupid plot device for a sad sack story? Who knows, when it makes no sense...it really makes no sense!

What I don't like about Ad Astra is how can the source emit such powerful signal enough to affect the entire solar system. That's the downer. Unless someone can justify or give reasonable explanations. Perhaps when you manipulate the vacuum, it can do just that? If they mention about "vacuum". It would become more reasonable.

 

[member 656954]

Unless someone can justify or give reasonable explanations.

There is no reasonable explanation, that's the issue. They invoke antimatter as if it's grey goo, so I found I needed to take the movie as one man's inner journey to understand and forgive himself, ignoring the nonsensical plot elements that trashed science on a regular basis.

 

[new6ton]

There is no reasonable explanation, that's the issue. They invoke antimatter as if it's grey goo, so I found I needed to take the movie as one man's inner journey to understand and forgive himself, ignoring the nonsensical plot elements that trashed science on a regular basis.

You didn't enclose "antimatter" in spoiler. We have done experiments on antimatter and it can't produce that kind of power. They should have used "vacuum metastability" something and it would sound more serious or intriguing. I guess movie writers have such poor imaginations.

 

[member 656954]

The anitmatter in the film is well and truly in the public domain, but I agree, vacuum instability would have made a lot more sense!

 

[DaveC426913]

On the contrary, if you've got a good story but maybe not the very best actors nor the best effects, you can still make a good movie. Examples: Total Recall (which has a good story in my opinion).

It shall go without saying that you are referring to the original (as evidenced by your link to the '90s v. w/ Arnie).

Yes, it is one of my top 20 films.

 

[DennisN]

It shall go without saying that you are referring to the original (as evidenced by your link to the '90s v. w/ Arnie).

Yes. I've seen the remake, but I don't recall it (pun intended). And since I can hardly remember what I thought of the remake, it is fair to say it did not make an impression on me .

 

[RPinPA]

It shall go without saying that you are referring to the original (as evidenced by your link to the '90s v. w/ Arnie).

Yes, it is one of my top 20 films.

I've never seen the film, but the original story "We Can Remember It For You Wholesale" by Philip Dick is a very enjoyable read. To me a lot of sci-fi is exploring human nature and human society: what would be the effect on us if [some premise]? Eternal life for instance.

But a lot of sci-fi, especially the short fiction, is just entertainment, a fun idea. And I enjoy those fun stories that aren't asking any deep questions as well. That's how Dick's story reads to me, as kind of a joke.

I have no idea how faithful the film is to the short story, but based on the casting of Schwarzenegger I would guess "not very".

And some sci-fi, such as a lot of the "hard" sci-fi by authors like Larry Niven, are exploring some "what if" scientific premise. What would it be like on a Dyson Sphere (a sphere completely surrounding a sun to capture its energy) for instance? When people pointed out that the Dyson Sphere was not gravitationally stable, Niven changed it to a ring and wrote an entire series of novels (the Ringworld series) exploring the implications of that.

It turns out the ring isn't stable either, so Niven eventually had to add a propulsion system.

 

[DaveC426913]

Yes. I've seen the remake, but I don't recall it (pun intended). And since I can hardly remember what I thought of the remake, it is fair to say it did not make an impression on me .

How can you forget a fight on the outer hull of a hypersonic shuttle going 35 times the speed of sound, as it passes the glowing red molten core of the Earth?

 

[new6ton]

The anitmatter in the film is well and truly in the public domain, but I agree, vacuum instability would have made a lot more sense!

That is why before the producers spend several millions in the production. They should ask advices from us in this forum. Lol. The non-physicist public have intuition. If the movie is in essence bad, they can smell it, so they better get some feedback from PF sci-fi fans first.

 

[member 656954]

Many movies have a science advisor, Ad Astra didn't!

But I note that that appalling Netflix series, Another Life also had a science advisor, and it is a stinker, so I'm thinking that the 'sniff test' is entirely ignored for some productions and applied for others, though how we know which is which in advance, escapes me.

 

[new6ton]

I can see the consideration of alternative realities as being what is attractive in SF. But times have changed.
Nowadays, it seems the reality of many incredible things going on that takes away a lot of the attraction from SF. Tons of interesting stuff a few keyboard strokes away. Not sure I understood your point about Bangladesh though.

Maybe I'm mistaken to name Bangladesh as example. I just want to convey that in another country, it's not like the USA the land of the free where you can watch any video and not being killed. In NK, I heard people were killed by watching english movies.

So what I meant was that on earth, it didn't represent the condition of what a normal planet should be. Or planet of the free.

Our future have all possibilities. The fact World War II even happened with hundreds of millions of death meant nothing was watching us, nothing at all. We are on our own.

 

[new6ton]

What reboots are you excited to watch coming next year? Me. Its

1. Flight of the Navigator
2. Highlander.
3. Top Gun 2 where they will use the latest stealth fighter
4. The Invisible Man
5. ET Phone Home
6. what other supposedly good ones have you seen reviews of?

Can a jacket made of thermo optics (etc) really make one invisible? To what extend?

 

[DennisN]

How can you forget a fight on the outer hull of a hypersonic shuttle going 35 times the speed of sound, as it passes the glowing red molten core of the Earth?

Did that happen in the movie? I seriously can't remember. Maybe my brain protected me by blocking it out.

 

[Mark44]

Shouldn't we make it a crime to make bad reboots?

No. If a remake is truly terrible, there's a good chance it will take in less at the box office than it cost to make. IMO, that's enough of a penalty.

Reboots are supposed to be good.

Who supposes that? The primary reason for a movie to get remade is to make a bunch of money without having to come up with an original idea.

 

[new6ton]

A very good TV must see reboot now is Threadstone, related to Jason Bourne. First episode is very good. They fight like Black Widow (Scarlett) of Avengers. Purge season 2 is also showing now.

If a person or android can compute your every move, then they should be able to win in fights with you?