Why do 'up of' and 'above' sound so similar?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the phonetic and syntactic similarities between the phrases 'up of' and 'above', particularly in the context of their use in syntactic trees and spatial relations. Participants consider the implications of these similarities for understanding language structure and grammar.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes the phonetic similarity between 'up of' and 'above', suggesting that changing the voicing of /p/ and shifting stress could lead to this similarity.
  • Another participant introduces the idea of syntactic trees having specific 'shapes' and proposes the creation of a mobile that visually represents grammatical structures.
  • There is a suggestion that the mobile could be designed to show different interpretations of phrases based on periodic movements, linking grammar to visual representation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants appear to share an interest in the phonetic and conceptual connections between the phrases, but there is no consensus on the implications or applications of these observations.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes speculative ideas about the relationship between phonetics and syntax, as well as creative applications of these concepts, but lacks formal definitions or established rules governing the proposed ideas.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in linguistics, phonetics, syntax, and creative applications of language concepts may find this discussion engaging.

honestrosewater
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I was just thinking about how to describe two relations in syntactic trees similar to this one:

http://xs70.xs.to/pics/06090/tree1.gif

And I noticed something funny: You have two dimensions and their corresponding pairs of directions, left/right and up/down, and you can use these to describe relations on points, or whatever, in the plane. For left/right, it's is left of and is right of, e.g., in the diagram above, the node tried is left of the node to. But for up/down, instead of is up of and is down of, we use is above and is below, e.g., tried is above to. The sharp ones among you might have noticed that up of /ʌp ʌv/ sounds extremely similar to above /əbʌv/. All you need to do to change up of to above is voice /p/ and switch the stress to of, both of which do happen naturally under some conditions, and doing one might even cause the other to happen. I seriously doubt that's what happened, but it's cool, no? :biggrin: Anyone else ever noticed similar coincidences?
 
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http://loreto.weblogs.us/wp-images/alexander_calder.jpg
 
There are of course rules determining what 'shapes' the trees can have. You could make a mobile whose shape is 'grammatical' when viewed from only some vantage points... I bet you could at least come up with an interesting title for it. Hah, maybe even make the mobile's title the structure that the tree is representing! :biggrin:

Ooh, ooh! Or control its movements with a machine (like a clock motor thing) so that its grammaticality is periodic. Ooh, ooh! And you could put words in and make it a structurally ambiguous phrase and have its different interpretations show up at different times... they would be tied into the times at which they show up, of course. Hah. Good times.
 
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