Why do we conclude that r1-r2=0?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the proof of the statement that if \( a \equiv b \pmod{m} \), then \( a \) and \( b \) give the same remainder when divided by \( m \). Participants explore the implications of the proof, particularly focusing on the reasoning behind certain inequalities and definitions related to modular arithmetic.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks clarification on the reasoning that leads to the conclusion \( r_1 - r_2 = 0 \) from the statement \( m \mid r_1 - r_2 \).
  • Another participant explains that if \( m \) divides \( r_1 - r_2 \), then \( r_1 - r_2 \) must equal zero, as any non-zero integer multiple of \( m \) would contradict the inequality \( -m < r_1 - r_2 < m \).
  • A participant questions how the inequality \( -m < r_1 - r_2 < m \) is derived, leading to a response that it follows from the definitions \( 0 \leq r_1 < m \) and \( 0 \leq r_2 < m \).
  • Another participant rewrites the proof using symbols and discusses the definitions involved, suggesting that the original statement is almost tautological.
  • One participant expresses a preference for notation consistency regarding "mod" and "remainder" in the context of modular arithmetic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the definitions and implications of modular arithmetic, but there are varying perspectives on notation and the clarity of the proof's presentation. The discussion remains somewhat unresolved regarding the best way to articulate these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference specific inequalities and definitions that are foundational to modular arithmetic, but there is no consensus on the clarity of the proof or the best way to express these ideas.

evinda
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Hello! :)

I am looking at the proof of the following sentence:
$a \equiv b \pmod m \Rightarrow a,b$ give the same remainder when they are divided by $m$.

That's the proof that my teacher gave:

Let $a \equiv b \pmod m$.So, $ m \mid a-b$

Let $a=q_1 \cdot m+r_1, 0 \leq r_1 < m$
and $b=q_2 \cdot m+r_2,0 \leq r_2<m$

then $a-b=(q_1-q_2) \cdot m+ (r_1-r_2)$

As $m \mid a-b \Rightarrow m \mid r_1-r_2$

As $-m<r_1-r_2<m \Rightarrow r_1-r_2=0$ $\Rightarrow r_1=r_2$.

Could you explain me the red part? :confused:
 
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evinda said:
Hello! :)

I am looking at the proof of the following sentence:
$a \equiv b \pmod m \Rightarrow a,b$ give the same remainder when they are divided by $m$.

That's the proof that my teacher gave:

Let $a \equiv b \pmod m$.So, $ m \mid a-b$

Let $a=q_1 \cdot m+r_1, 0 \leq r_1 < m$
and $b=q_2 \cdot m+r_2,0 \leq r_2<m$

then $a-b=(q_1-q_2) \cdot m+ (r_1-r_2)$

As $m \mid a-b \Rightarrow m \mid r_1-r_2$

As $-m<r_1-r_2<m \Rightarrow r_1-r_2=0$ $\Rightarrow r_1=r_2$.

Could you explain me the red part? :confused:

$m|r_{1}-r_{2}$ so $ma=r_{1}-r_{2}$ for some integer $a$. If $a$ is non-zero, then $|r_{1}-r_{2}|$ would be at least as large as $|m|$, contrary to the inequality $-m<r_{1}-r_{2}<m$. Hence $a=0$, so that $r_{1}-r_{2}=0$
 
Fermat said:
$m|r_{1}-r_{2}$ so $ma=r_{1}-r_{2}$ for some integer $a$. If $a$ is non-zero, then $|r_{1}-r_{2}|$ would be at least as large as $|m|$, contrary to the inequality $-m<r_{1}-r_{2}<m$. Hence $a=0$, so that $r_{1}-r_{2}=0$

How do we conclude to the inequality $-m<r_{1}-r_{2}<m$? :confused:
 
evinda said:
How do we conclude to the inequality $-m<r_{1}-r_{2}<m$? :confused:

It follows from the inequalities $0 \leq r_1 < m$ and $0 \leq r_2<m$.
 
Fermat said:
It follows from the inequalities $0 \leq r_1 < m$ and $0 \leq r_2<m$.

I understand...Thank you! (Nod)
 
evinda said:
Hello! :)

I am looking at the proof of the following sentence:
$a \equiv b\pmod m \Rightarrow a,b$ give the same remainder when they are divided by $m$.
I would rewrite this, replacing words by symbols, to get:
$a \equiv b\pmod m \Rightarrow a\pmod m = r, b\pmod m = r$

then as your teacher stated, by definition
$a \equiv b\pmod m \Rightarrow m \mid a-b$

so, by substitution, we have as an equivalent to the instructor's problem statement:
$m \mid a-b \Rightarrow a\pmod m = r, b\pmod m = r$

also by definition we have:
$a\pmod m = r \Rightarrow a=mq_1+r$
and
$b\pmod m = r \Rightarrow b=mq_2+r$

so again by substituting into the problem definition we have:
$m \mid a-b \Rightarrow a=mq_1+r$ and $b=mq_2+r$
then
$m \mid a-b \Rightarrow (a-b) = m(q_1 - q_2)$
and finally:
$m \mid a-b \Rightarrow m \mid a-b$

Really, the actual statement to be proven was so close to being a fundamental definition that the professor had to work hard to obscure that fact.
 
Last edited:
I would personally put the "mod m" part into parentheses only when explicitly working with a congruence relation, and just writing "a mod m" when using it to denote a remainder operation. I find it's more consistent and less confusing to people, but it's no big deal.

And, yes, the argument here is near tautological. $a \equiv b \pmod{m}$ is pretty much the definition of "$a$ and $b$ leave the same remainder when divided by $m$", though I suppose it depends on what fundamental definition of modular arithmetic you're working your way up from.
 

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