Why do words and mathematics seem to have different levels of complexity?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the perceived differences in complexity between words and mathematics, exploring the nature of mathematical concepts such as natural logarithms and complex numbers, as well as the role of language in conveying ideas. Participants touch on historical perspectives, the evolution of mathematical notation, and the precision of mathematical language compared to verbal communication.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the naturalness of natural logarithms and the complexity of complex numbers, suggesting that words are imprecise and often carry multiple meanings.
  • Another participant agrees that complex numbers can be seen as composite but also acknowledges their difficulty, noting that mathematics was developed to reduce reliance on ambiguous language.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that early mathematical problems were presented in narrative forms, indicating a historical shift in how mathematics is communicated.
  • One participant posits that mathematics is complex because it allows for the construction of intricate logical chains, contrasting it with legal arguments, which they claim lack a stable foundation.
  • Another participant challenges the idea that legal arguments have limits to their complexity, humorously attributing any limits to the financial aspects of legal representation.
  • A participant emphasizes the necessity of words while highlighting their imprecision, arguing that mathematics serves as a more accurate tool for describing physical phenomena.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views regarding the complexity of words versus mathematics, with no clear consensus on the nature of this complexity or the implications for communication in scientific contexts.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference historical perspectives on mathematical notation and the evolution of language in mathematics, but these points remain open to interpretation and further discussion.

mcastillo356
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Hi PF

Don't you think that natural logarithm is not that natural, and complex numbers are not that complex? Words are absolutely necessary, but are so imprecise... For example, to write this post, and make this message clear, as I'm not native, I've had to look at Cambridge Dictionary online (Is this the word? :smile: ), and haven't still found entry without less than two meanings, except if it belongs to a very specific field. But maths...If introduce "e number wikipedia" search input (hope not to be kicking English once more), I get lots of words, but if I say ##e##, it's magic.

Love, greetings.
 
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I've always understood that complex numbers are indeed complex, but in the other meaning of the word. So they consists of several parts, are a composite.

And, depending who you ask, they can also be pretty difficult ;).

Lastly, we've invented math (and in particular the notation) to not be dependent on words anymore for exactly the reason you've mentioned. I believe that in the early days math problems and solutions were given in story like fashion... we've come a long way :).
 
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Arjan82 said:
I believe that in the early days math problems and solutions were given in story like fashion... we've come a long way :).
It was not so much a "be given" as it was an elimination race. To my best knowledge, there first were the imaginary numbers, zeros of polynomials which you cannot see (on the real number line). Multiplication of two composite numbers isn't really composite anymore as it is complex.
 
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Math is complex because its simple

You can build complex chains of logic without math (legal arguments for example) but they don't have the same stable foundation to build on, so there is a limit to the complexity
 
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BWV said:
You can build complex chains of logic without math (legal arguments for example) but they don't have the same stable foundation to build on, so there is a limit to the complexity
Ugh. That's not a good example. Legal arguments has no limit of complexity (other than the salary of the involved lawyers :oldbiggrin: )
 
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mcastillo356 said:
Words are absolutely necessary, but are so imprecise
That's why physics uses math to actually describe things. Words are more for pop-science presentations.
 
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