Why do you integrate to find the gravitational field?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding the integration process used to find the gravitational field when dealing with a non-constant gravitational force, specifically between a sphere and a thin rod. The original poster is exploring the concept of how each infinitesimal mass element of the rod experiences varying gravitational forces due to its distance from the center of the sphere.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster questions the necessity of integration by considering how each piece of mass along the rod experiences different gravitational forces based on their respective distances from the sphere. They also inquire about the conditions under which the sphere can be treated as a point mass.

Discussion Status

Some participants affirm the original poster's reasoning regarding the varying forces experienced by different segments of the rod. Others provide insights into the conditions under which a spherical mass can be treated as a point mass, referencing the principles of symmetry and the inverse square law.

Contextual Notes

There is a focus on the gravitational field outside the spherical mass, with an acknowledgment that the discussion does not apply to points within the sphere. The conversation also hints at the complexity of the problem due to the non-uniformity of mass distribution in certain scenarios.

Vitani11
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Homework Statement


I know that in general it is when the gravitational field is not constant, so that part is fine. To find the gravitational force between a sphere with mass M and a radius R and a thin rod of length L and mass m which has one end a distance x away from the center of the sphere, you need to integrate.

Homework Equations


Unnecessary

The Attempt at a Solution


My issue is not the integration, it's just the concept. Is it because each piece of mass (dm) at a length dl on the rod experiences a difference magnitude of gravitational force since each piece of mass is at different locations (and a certain distance away from the spheres center) along the rod? Also, why can you treat the sphere as a point charge in this case? I know it is because it is a sphere, but I don't understand how being a sphere allows it to be treated as a point charge.
 
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Vitani11 said:
Is it because each piece of mass (dm) at a length dl on the rod experiences a difference magnitude of gravitational force since each piece of mass is at different locations (and a certain distance away from the spheres center) along the rod?
Yes.
Vitani11 said:
why can you treat the sphere as a point charge
It's a bit more general, applying to a uniform spherical shell. So the sphere as a whole does not need to be uniform - you can have the density depending on radius.
if you assume validity of the lines of flux model for forces obeying an inverse square law, you can put a Gaussian surface around the sphere and argue i) that the total flux through the surface is proportional to the mass (or charge) enclosed, and ii) by symmetry, the force must be radial and spherically symmetric. It follows that it is independent of the radius of the sphere, so that can be reduced to a point.
Alternatively, you can just do the integration and discover the result.

Of course, this is only for test points outside the spherical shell. There is no field inside.
 
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From the way you worded that, it sounds like the rod is oriented so that its long axis is radially outwards from the spherical mass. So yes, your reasoning is correct. Break down the rod into pieces, and you'll see that each one experiences a different force due to the equation ##\vec F = G \frac {m_1 m_2} {r^2}##. So to find the overall force, you need to break it down into infinite infinitesimal pieces and sum those forces.
 
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TJGilb said:
From the way you worded that, it sounds like the rod is oriented so that its long axis is radially outwards from the spherical mass. So yes, your reasoning is correct. Break down the rod into pieces, and you'll see that each one experiences a different force due to the equation ##\vec F = G \frac {m_1 m_2} {r^2}##. So to find the overall force, you need to break it down into infinite infinitesimal pieces and sum those forces.
I was, thank you.
 

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