Why does a sum of operators act on the state like this?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of ladder operators in quantum mechanics, specifically focusing on the expectation value of the operator ##L_x## for a given quantum state. Participants explore the mathematical steps involved in deriving the expectation value and the implications of using ladder operators on spherical harmonics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the assignment of ladder operators to states in the expectation value calculation, expressing confusion about the reasoning behind it.
  • Another participant asks for clarification on the results of applying the ladder operators ##L_+## and ##L_-## to the spherical harmonics ##Y_{11}## and ##Y_{10}##.
  • It is noted that ##L_+ Y_{11} = 0##, indicating that this term does not contribute to the expectation value.
  • Participants discuss that ##L_- Y_{10} = 2\hbar Y_{1,-1}##, but there is uncertainty regarding the validity of ##Y_{1,-1}## due to the constraints on ##\ell##.
  • One participant suggests that the non-zero term from ##L_- Y_{10}## does not contribute to the integral because of the orthonormality of spherical harmonics, leading to a zero inner product with other states.
  • Another participant confirms the reasoning about orthonormality and its implications for the expectation value calculation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the mathematical results of applying the ladder operators, but there is some uncertainty regarding the implications of these results and the validity of certain spherical harmonics. The discussion remains exploratory without a definitive resolution on all points raised.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding assumptions about the states involved and the conditions under which the ladder operators are applied. The dependency on the definitions of spherical harmonics and their orthonormality is also noted but not resolved.

Harry Smith
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I'm reading through my quantum physics lecture notes (see page 216 of the lecture notes for more details) and under the ladder operators section there is a discussion of the expectation value of ##L_x## for a state ##\psi = R(r) \left( \sqrt{ \frac{2}{3}} Y_{11} - \sqrt{ \frac{1}{3}} Y_{10} \right)## such that
\langle \psi | L_x | \psi \rangle = \frac{1}{2} \bigg\langle \sqrt{ \frac{2}{3}} Y_{11} - \sqrt{ \frac{1}{3}} Y_{10} \bigg| L_+ + L_- \bigg| \sqrt{ \frac{2}{3}} Y_{11} - \sqrt{ \frac{1}{3}} Y_{10} \bigg\rangle, where ##L_\pm## are the angular momentum ladder operators and ##Y_{\ell m}## are the spherical harmonics.

Now, this all makes sense to me, however the next step states that
\langle \psi | L_x | \psi \rangle = \frac{1}{2} \bigg\langle \sqrt{ \frac{2}{3}} Y_{11} - \sqrt{ \frac{1}{3}} Y_{10} \bigg| \sqrt{ \frac{2}{3}} L_- Y_{11} - \sqrt{ \frac{1}{3}} L_+ Y_{10} \bigg\rangle.
Why have these operators been assigned seemingly at random to one of the states?

My intuition suggests that
\begin{align*} (A+B) |u_1+u_2 \rangle &= A |u_1+u_2 \rangle + B |u_1+u_2 \rangle \\&= | A u_1 + A u_2 \rangle + | B u_1 + B u_2 \rangle\end{align*}
\begin{align*}\implies \langle u_1+u_2 | (A+B) |u_1+u_2 \rangle &= \langle u_1+u_2 | A u_1 + A u_2 \rangle + \langle u_1+u_2 | B u_1 + B u_2 \rangle \\&= \langle u_1 | A u_1 \rangle + \langle u_2 | A u_1 \rangle + \langle u_1 | A u_2 \rangle + \langle u_2 | A u_2 \rangle \\&\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ + \langle u_1 | B u_1 \rangle + \langle u_2 | B u_1 \rangle + \langle u_1 | B u_2 \rangle + \langle u_2 | B u_2 \rangle \end{align*}.
Where am I going wrong?

Please note that this is not a homework problem, so full solutions are welcome. I may need each tiny step written out to understand why this is happening.
 
Last edited:
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Some steps have been left out.

What is ##L_+ Y_{11}##?

What is ##L_- Y_{10}##?
 
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George Jones said:
What is ##L_+ Y_{11}##?
So since L_\pm Y_{\ell m} = \hbar \sqrt{\ell (\ell + 1) - m (m \pm 1)} Y_{\ell (m\pm1)}, we find that ##L_+ Y_{11} = 0##.

George Jones said:
What is ##L_- Y_{10}##?
Using the same logic as before, ##L_- Y_{10} = 2\hbar Y_{1,-1}##, right?

Here, my first inference was that since ##\ell## is only valid for ##\ell = 0,1,2,...## then ##Y_{1,-1} = 0##. However, other problems (such as 13.5.1 in the notes) successfully use ##Y_{1,-1}##.
 
Harry Smith said:
So since L_\pm Y_{\ell m} = \hbar \sqrt{\ell (\ell + 1) - m (m \pm 1)} Y_{\ell (m\pm1)}, we find that ##L_+ Y_{11} = 0##.

Yes, so this term contributes nothing.

Harry Smith said:
Using the same logic as before, ##L_- Y_{10} = 2\hbar Y_{1,-1}##, right?

Yes. Even though this term is non-zero, it doesn't contribute anything to the integral (inner product). Why?
 
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George Jones said:
Yes. Even though this term is non-zero, it doesn't contribute anything to the integral (inner product). Why?
Ah, because the spherical harmonics are orthonormal, so we need only consider the states that are already present because the others will have an inner product of zero?
 
Harry Smith said:
Ah, because the spherical harmonics are orthonormal, so we need only consider the states that are already present because the others will have an inner product of zero?

Yes.
 
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George Jones said:
Yes.
Thank you so much for your help, George!
 

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