Why Does Acceleration Point Towards the Center in Elliptical Orbits?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the nature of acceleration in elliptical orbits, particularly why the acceleration vector appears to point towards the center of the ellipse rather than the focus, which is where the sun is located in the context of planetary motion. Participants explore the implications of parameterizing an ellipse and the relationship between position, velocity, and acceleration in this framework.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a parameterization of an ellipse and notes that the acceleration vector points towards the origin, questioning the validity of their math in the context of planetary motion.
  • Another participant asserts that the acceleration is not normal to the velocity except in the case of a circle, suggesting that the parameterization used does not accurately represent the motion of a planet.
  • A different participant challenges the idea that velocity is normal to acceleration, providing a mathematical expression for the inner product to support their view.
  • It is mentioned that in planetary motion, there is generally a tangential component of acceleration in addition to the centripetal component, which affects the overall direction of acceleration.
  • One participant emphasizes that the parameterization given describes an ellipse centered at the origin, while the sun is located at one of the foci, indicating a potential issue with the parameterization for describing orbits.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between acceleration and velocity in elliptical orbits, with no consensus reached on the validity of the original parameterization or the nature of the acceleration vector.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the parameterization discussed, particularly regarding the placement of the sun at the focus of the ellipse and the implications for the acceleration vector's direction. The discussion also highlights unresolved mathematical relationships between the components of acceleration and velocity.

schaefera
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If you parameterize an ellipse such that x=acos(t) and y=bsin(t), then you quite easily get the relations:

r={acost, bsint}
v={-asint, bcost}
a={-acost, -bsint}

But my issue is that now, if I think of the equations as representing the motion of a planet about its sun, the acceleration vector listed above always points toward the center of the ellipse and not toward the ellipse's focus. (Take, for example, t=pi/2... with this, the position is along the y-axis at a distance b, and acceleration points toward the origin, not the ellipse's focus).

That is, the acceleration is always directed normal to velocity, which should only happen in a circle... so what is wrong with my math?
 
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schaefera said:
If you parameterize an ellipse such that x=acos(t) and y=bsin(t), then you quite easily get the relations:

r={acost, bsint}
v={-asint, bcost}
a={-acost, -bsint}

But my issue is that now, if I think of the equations as representing the motion of a planet about its sun, the acceleration vector listed above always points toward the center of the ellipse and not toward the ellipse's focus. (Take, for example, t=pi/2... with this, the position is along the y-axis at a distance b, and acceleration points toward the origin, not the ellipse's focus).

That is, the acceleration is always directed normal to velocity, which should only happen in a circle... so what is wrong with my math?

The acceleration is not normal to the velocity except when a = b, the case of the circle.

In the motion of a planet, the parameterization is not the same as the one you have given.
Try solving for the parameters starting with Newton's law of gravitation
 
In the parameterization above, isn't velocity normal to acceleration?
 
schaefera said:
In the parameterization above, isn't velocity normal to acceleration?

no. the inner product is

a^2sintcost - b^2bsintcost

In planetary motion, the acceleration is not normal to the ellipse except at extreme points.

Generally there is a component of acceleration that is tangent to the ellipse in addition to the normal centripetal component. I think of the direction centripetal component as being rotated by the tangent component so that the total acceleration points towards the focus of the ellipse.
 
schaefera said:
If you parameterize an ellipse such that x=acos(t) and y=bsin(t), then you quite easily get the relations:

r={acost, bsint}
v={-asint, bcost}
a={-acost, -bsint}

But my issue is that now, if I think of the equations as representing the motion of a planet about its sun, the acceleration vector listed above always points toward the center of the ellipse and not toward the ellipse's focus.
Yours is but one of many (an infinite number) of parameterizations of an ellipse with the center at the origin. It is not *the* parameterization to use to describe an orbiting body. For one thing, your parameterization describes an ellipse with the center at the origin of the reference frame. The Sun is at one of the foci of an ellipse.
 

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