Why Does Work Equal Zero When Force Is Perpendicular to Displacement?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of work in physics, specifically why work equals zero when the force is perpendicular to the displacement. Participants explore the mathematical relationships involved and clarify the definitions of angles in the context of force and displacement vectors.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a diagram and attempts to derive work using trigonometric functions, questioning the condition when the angle is 90 degrees.
  • Another participant emphasizes that the angle theta should represent the angle between the displacement vector and the force vector, suggesting that the participant's renaming of angles may lead to confusion.
  • A different participant points out that the second diagram incorrectly represents the angle as a right angle, clarifying that the correct approach involves dropping a perpendicular from the force vector to the displacement vector to find the component of the force in the direction of displacement.
  • There is a discussion about the correct use of trigonometric functions, with one participant suggesting that the misunderstanding lies in the application of the tangent function in the context of the force and displacement vectors.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of angles and the construction of triangles in relation to force and displacement. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives on the correct approach to understanding the relationship between work, force, and displacement.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made regarding the definitions of angles and the geometric representations used in the diagrams. The discussion highlights the need for clarity in the relationships between force, displacement, and the angles involved.

Perpendicular
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Hello, I am almost surely doing something wrong here, but I think it would be better if I drew a diagram to illustrate what I mean.

[PLAIN]http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/5830/workh.png

AB is Force, AC is displacement.

Now I know that work here = Force . Displacement x Cos(theta), by constructing a perpendicular between AB and AC and using sine-cosine functions.

When theta = 90, component of force along displacement equals 0 - this, I don't get, as since I use trigonometry to derive W = F . D x Cos (theta) I think I can do that here like this:

[PLAIN]http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2720/work2i.png

AC = Force, AB = Displacement.

The angle formerly indicated as (theta) now has the sign of a right angle.

Now here, tan(theta) = AB/AC or AC x tan(theta) = AB. Therefore F x tan(theta) = D.

Thus Work = F.D.tan(theta).

Where am I going wrong?
 
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The angle theta is the angle between the displacement vector and the force vector. What you're doing in the second example is changing the meaning of the angle theta.
 
Mr.Miyagi said:
The angle theta is the angle between the displacement vector and the force vector. What you're doing in the second example is changing the meaning of the angle theta.

Lol, I know that. But it's not a crime to rename variables. Call that angle alpha or beta or gamma or what you wish.

I suspect my error lay in using the tan function.
 
What you have drawn in your second diagram is not a perperdicular between AB and AC.
You have (incorrectly) made the angle at A into a right angle.

What actually happens if you drop a perpendicular from AB to AC, you drop it from a useful point on AB, say B.
This meets AC in a new point D, so BD is perp to AC and the angle at D is a right angle.

The distance AD is the component of the force in the direction of the displacement.
the work done is then ADxAC = ABcos([tex]\theta[/tex])xAC as required.

AD is also known as the projection of AB on AC.
 
Perpendicular said:
[PLAIN]http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/2720/work2i.png

AC = Force, AB = Displacement.

The angle formerly indicated as (theta) now has the sign of a right angle.

Now here, tan(theta) = AB/AC or AC x tan(theta) = AB. Therefore F x tan(theta) = D.
No, the way it would really work is:
tan(θ) = F / (component of F that is parallel to D)​
That means θ should be zero in the 2nd figure.

Thus Work = F.D.tan(theta).
With θ = 0, this is correct.

Where am I going wrong?
In thinking that you can construct a triangle out of the force and displacement vectors.
 
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