Why doesn't the energy come out right in the Dirac Equation?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the Dirac Equation and the confusion regarding the energy eigenvalues derived from it. Participants explore the implications of non-commuting operators and the nature of eigenstates in the context of relativistic quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Conceptual clarification, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes their understanding of the Dirac Equation and expresses confusion over the energy eigenvalue not matching the expected relativistic energy formula.
  • Another participant points out that the operators ##\alpha_1## and ##\beta## do not commute, which implies they cannot have simultaneous eigenvectors, leading to further confusion for the original poster.
  • A later reply acknowledges the non-commuting nature of the operators and reflects on the implications for understanding eigenstates.
  • One participant provides a mathematical example of two non-commuting operators and discusses the existence of common eigenvectors under certain conditions, indicating a deeper confusion about the underlying mathematics.
  • Another participant corrects the previous statement about common eigenvectors, clarifying that non-commuting Hermitian operators do not share the same eigenvector bases.
  • The discussion highlights the complexity of the mathematical framework surrounding the Dirac Equation and the challenges participants face in grasping these concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express confusion and uncertainty regarding the implications of non-commuting operators and the nature of eigenstates. There is no consensus on the resolution of the original question about energy eigenvalues.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in their understanding of the mathematical principles involved, particularly regarding the implications of operator commutation and eigenstates.

Xezlec
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Hello,

I'm looking at the Dirac Equation, in the form given on Wikipedia, and (foolishly) trying to understand it.

[itex]\left( c \boldsymbol{\alpha}\cdot \mathbf{\hat{p}}+\beta mc^2 \right ) \psi = i\hbar\frac{\partial \psi}{\partial t}\,\![/itex]

So I picture a wavefunction in an eigenstate of the momentum operator in the [itex]e_1[/itex]-direction with an eigenvalue of p, and simultaneously an eigenstate of the [itex]\alpha_1[/itex] and [itex]\beta[/itex] operators with an eigenvalue of 1 in both cases. Now obviously, for this case:

[itex]\left( c \boldsymbol{\alpha}\cdot \mathbf{\hat{p}}+\beta mc^2 \right ) \psi = \left( p c +mc^2 \right ) \psi\,\![/itex]

But we know that [itex]E = \sqrt{p^2 c^2 + m^2 c^4}[/itex], so this doesn't seem to give the right eigenvalue for the energy operator on the RHS. We want the hypotenuse of a right triangle with [itex]c p[/itex] and [itex]m c^2[/itex] as its legs, not the length of a line with those two quantities as segments of the line! It seems like it might work out right if somehow they were complex and 90 degrees out of phase, but I can't see any way to get that.

What part of my brain is broken?

Thanks.
 
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Wow. I had forgotten those didn't commute. Now I'm really confused. Back to the drawing board.

Thanks!
 
OK, I may have tracked down part of what's confusing me now. I've always been told that if two operators don't commute then they can't have a common eigenstate, but looky here. If

[itex]A = \begin{bmatrix}-1 & 0 & 0 \\0 & 1 & 0 \\0 & 0 & 1 \end{bmatrix}[/itex]

and

[itex]B = \begin{bmatrix}0 & 1 & 0 \\1 & 0 & 0 \\0 & 0 & 1 \end{bmatrix}[/itex]

then

[itex]AB = \begin{bmatrix}0 & -1 & 0 \\1 & 0 & 0 \\0 & 0 & 1 \end{bmatrix}[/itex]

but

[itex]BA = \begin{bmatrix}0 & 1 & 0 \\-1 & 0 & 0 \\0 & 0 & 1 \end{bmatrix}[/itex].

Since these are different, [itex]A[/itex] and [itex]B[/itex] do not commute. However,

[itex]r = \begin{bmatrix}0 \\0 \\1 \end{bmatrix}[/itex]

is clearly an eigenvector of both [itex]A[/itex] and [itex]B[/itex]. I guess I'm having trouble with the math at a more basic level than I thought.
 
I was a bit too fast, sorry to have misled you. If the rank of ##[A,B]## is not maximal, there may be some common eigenvectors. The true statement is that, for two Hermitian operators that don't commute, their bases of eigenvectors are not the same. In other words, they are not simultaneously diagonalizable.

Now, to get back to the original problem, it turns out that ##\alpha_1## and ##\beta## still do not have a common eigenvector.
 

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