Why Don't Galaxy Rotations Follow Kepler's Third Law?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the discrepancy between galaxy rotation curves and Kepler's Third Law, exploring why stars in galaxies do not follow the expected orbital velocities based on their distance from the galactic center. The scope includes theoretical considerations and gravitational dynamics in astrophysics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that Kepler's Third Law applies to planets orbiting a fixed mass, like the Sun, but questions its applicability to stars in galaxies where mass distribution varies.
  • Another participant explains that as one moves away from the galactic core, the mass of stars interior to the orbiting star increases, affecting orbital velocity calculations.
  • A later reply highlights that beyond a certain distance from the galactic core, stars exhibit constant orbital velocities, suggesting a contradiction to the initial assumptions about orbital dynamics.
  • One participant introduces the concept of dark matter, proposing that its presence influences the gravitational effects observed in outer galaxy systems, with a suggested ratio of dark matter to luminescent matter being approximately 100:1.
  • Another participant argues that gravitational forces in galaxies differ from those between small objects, proposing an alternative gravitational model involving a linear relationship with distance.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of Kepler's laws to galaxies, the role of dark matter, and the nature of gravitational forces in such contexts. No consensus is reached on these points.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the complexity of gravitational interactions in galaxies, suggesting that traditional models may not fully account for the observed phenomena. There are unresolved assumptions regarding the distribution of mass and the influence of dark matter.

pixel01
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According to Kepler third law, the ratio of the squares of the periods of any two planets is equal to the ratio of the cubes of their average distances from the sun.
If I can apply this to the rotaion of galaxy, meaning stars in inner part will orbit much faster than the outer ones. But it seems not.
Anyonoe please explain to me this.
Thanks.
 
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That's because the Sun is a fixed mass at the center of our solar system. But as you get further from the galactic core, there are more stars interior to you, adding to the mass that you would use to compute your orbital velocity.

Technically, this happens in the solar system. Earth orbits the combined mass of the Sun, Mercury and Venus. So it orbits a little faster than it would if Mercury and Venus did not exist. But since Mercury and Venus are insignificant compared to the Sun, their effect is negligible. But in the galaxy, the additional mass interior to you as you move out is not negligible.
 
tony873004 said:
That's because the Sun is a fixed mass at the center of our solar system. But as you get further from the galactic core, there are more stars interior to you, adding to the mass that you would use to compute your orbital velocity.

This is interesting in that I have been researching this topic throughout the day today. It seems that in fact after a certain distance from a galactic core, orbital velocities of stars become fairly constant in apparent contradiction of your statement.

The reason appears to be the presence of vast amounts of dark matter surrounding galaxies; the gravitational effect being the explanation for the faster-than-expected orbital velocities of outer systems. My reading suggests that the ratio of dark matter to luminescent matter is in the ballpark of 100:1.
 
k*r instead of k/(r^2)

As you know Kepler's laws are true for simple garvitional fields , but talking about galaxies and stars in it , the gravity isn't the same as the gravity between two "very small" objects.
To sum up what Tony873004 and WhyIsItSo said , in situations of this kind the force is: -Kr instead of -K/r2!
just for Mg use 4[tex]\pi[/tex]r2[tex]\rho[/tex] to get what I'm saying
Thanks a lot!
 

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