Why -e(v/c)H is the magnetic force?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the expression for magnetic force in the context of electromagnetic theory, specifically addressing the use of the term ##-e(v/c)H_0## in a paper and its relation to the Lorentz force. Participants explore the definitions and units involved, including the distinction between magnetic field strength ##H## and magnetic flux density ##B##, as well as the implications of using different unit systems such as cgs and SI.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the use of ##-e(v/c)H_0## as the magnetic force, noting that the Lorentz force is typically expressed as ##F=-e v B## without the presence of ##c## or ##\epsilon_0##.
  • Another participant suggests that the presence of ##c## may indicate the use of the cgs system, where charge is measured in statcoulombs.
  • A participant clarifies that it is ##\vec{B}##, not ##\vec{H}##, that should be used in the Lorentz force equation, and discusses the relationship between ##\vec{B}## and ##\vec{H}## in different unit systems.
  • There is a challenge regarding the behavior of charged particles in regions with zero magnetic field but non-zero magnetization, questioning the applicability of the Lorentz force in such scenarios.
  • Another participant acknowledges the potential confusion arising from the historical context of the paper and the terminology used, suggesting that ##H## may have been used to refer to ##B## in earlier literature.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correct interpretation of magnetic force and the appropriate use of units. There is no consensus on the implications of using ##H## versus ##B## or the relevance of the unit system employed in the paper.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the potential limitations of understanding due to the historical context of the paper and the differences in terminology and units between cgs and SI systems. Participants note the need for clarity regarding the definitions of magnetic field strength and magnetic flux density.

Haorong Wu
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In a paper I am reading, it reads, "For these orbits the electric force ##-e E_r## almost balances the magnetic force ##-e \left ( v/c \right ) H_0##." where ##-e## is the charge of the electrons, ##v## is the speed of the electrons, ##H_0## is a homogeneous magnetic field, and ##c## is not clearly indicated, but I guess it is the speed of light.

However, according to Lorentz force, ##F=-e v B= -e v \mu _0 H##. I do not see any ##c## or ##\epsilon_0##, so why the paper says ##-e \left ( v/c \right ) H_0## is the magnetic force?

Thanks.

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From the following content, it seems that ##B=\frac {H_0} c##, which I am not familiar with, so what is ##H_0##?
 
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The presence of c in the definition of magnetic force is probably due to the use of cgs instead of the the more familiar MKS system. That is the charge is measured in statcoulombs instead of coulombs
 
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It's ##\vec{B}##, not ##\vec{H}## which has to be used in the Lorentz force,
$$\vec{F}=q \left (\vec{E} + \frac{\vec{v}}{c} \times \vec{B} \right).$$
This is valid in Gaussian as well as Heaviside-Lorentz units.

In the SI the eq. reads
$$\vec{F}=Q (\vec{E} + \vec{v} \times \vec{B}).$$
There it's the more important to write correctly ##\vec{B}=\mu_0 \vec{H}## (in vacuo, with ##\mu_0## the permeability of the vacuum, which occurs in the SI as a conversion factor of units).
 
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vanhees71 said:
It's B not H which has to be used in the Lorentz force

Are you sure? Does not a charged particle in a region with B = 0 but M <> 0 deflect?
 
gleem said:
The presence of c in the definition of magnetic force is probably due to the use of cgs instead of the the more familiar MKS system. That is the charge is measured in statcoulombs instead of coulombs

Thanks, gleem. You are right. The author used cgs system which I am not familiar with and it is a paper in 1960s so H may mean B in that time.

And thanks to other friends.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
Are you sure? Does not a charged particle in a region with B = 0 but M <> 0 deflect?
How can ##\vec{B}=\vec{H}+\vec{M}=0## (Heaviside-Lorentz units)?
 
Good point.
 

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