Why is Annihilation Not a Force?

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    Annihilation Force
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of annihilation, specifically whether it can be classified as a force or if it is merely an event resulting from interactions between particles. Participants explore the implications of annihilation in the context of particle physics, considering various forces and interactions involved in the process.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether annihilation can be considered a force in itself, suggesting that it may not require a gauge boson to exist.
  • Others argue that annihilation is an event caused by interactions of forces, similar to beta decay, and not a force on its own.
  • There is a discussion about whether annihilation can occur without a force acting on the particles involved, with some suggesting that particles may collide due to their trajectories rather than attraction.
  • One participant proposes that annihilation could be viewed as a high-energy decay process, while another expresses uncertainty about the nature of annihilation itself.
  • Some participants assert that annihilation is a result of forces, specifically mentioning the electromagnetic force and its role in bringing particles together before annihilation occurs.
  • There is a suggestion that different types of annihilation may produce various particles, depending on the particles involved, and that not all annihilation events require high energy.
  • Questions are raised about the specifics of mass conversion during annihilation and whether it is accurate to say that annihilation converts particles into pure energy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the classification of annihilation as a force, with no consensus reached on the matter. The discussion remains unresolved, with ongoing questions about the nature and implications of annihilation.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight the need for a deeper understanding of quantum field theory to fully grasp the complexities of annihilation and its associated processes.

Islam Hassan
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If no other force is responsible for annihilation, is it a force in itself? Does one always need a gauge boson in order to have a force? If so, can one consider that matter and antimatter are their own gauge bosons with annihilation?

IH
 
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How can annihilation, which is some event, be a force?
 
Can events arise that are not the result of a force?

IH
 
Well, if you assume that two particles are approaching each other at certain velocities, for example an electron and a photon, they would collide. But not because of any kind of attraction, but because their trajectories simply crossed.
 
I see; what is annihilation in that case? Can it be conceived as a selective and collective very high-energy decay? I'm having trouble understanding the concept itself...

IH
 
I must admit that I'm not sure either. Maybe somebody else could provide some insights.
 
if a particle and a anti- particle annihilate each other a gauge boson is realized. The rest mass of these two particles is converted into the energy of the gauge boson. Annihilation is a particular type of interaction that is generated by a force.
 
It is caused by a force, yes. But the process that happens at the very moment of the annihilation? Is it correct to say that this is part of the force as well?
 
Saying annihilation is a force is like saying beta decay is a force. It is not. It is an event caused by interactions of forces.
 
  • #10
Polyrhythmic said:
It is caused by a force, yes. But the process that happens at the very moment of the annihilation? Is it correct to say that this is part of the force as well?

I don't believe so. A force is:
In physics, a force is any influence that causes a free body to undergo a change in speed, a change in direction, or a change in shape.

The electromagnetic force causes the attraction between anti particles which leads to annihilation. The annihilation itself uses forces to convert the particles into other particles.
 
  • #11
pls learn some quantum fied theory to understand these things better.
the question of annhilation requires some simple qft.
 
  • #12
Drakkith said:
I don't believe so. A force is:
In physics, a force is any influence that causes a free body to undergo a change in speed, a change in direction, or a change in shape.

The electromagnetic force causes the attraction between anti particles which leads to annihilation. The annihilation itself uses forces to convert the particles into other particles.

So to summarise, a particle and its anti-particle are drawn together by the electromagnetic force and then annihilate themselves via other forces by the total conversion of mass into boatloads of massless gauge bosons. In that case the 'other forces' must be the strong force since weak force gauge bosons have mass.

Is this correct? And what about a neutrino + anti-neutrino annihilation? Surely they are not drawn together by the electromagnetic force...

IH
 
  • #13
All the 4 forces in nature have an atraction, so the particles can all be drawn together by it, or just happened to collide by accident (or on purpose in colliders).

And also massive gauge bosons can also be created, because it's a conversion into energy and that becomes gauge bosons and other particles. If no massive gauge bosons could be formed, they wouldn't have discovered the W's en Z boson.
 
  • #14
The mysterious process of magnetic reconnection annihilation may be one of the most important and ubiquitous processes in nature.
http://www.physorg.com/news115921245.html

During the proposed annihilation process which creates the giant magnetic bubbles at our heliosheath, cosmic rays may be either blocked, created or both.
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-06-big-edge-solar.html
http://www.planetary.org/news/2011/0612_Voyager_Discovers_Possible_Sea_of_Huge.html

Respectfully submitted,
Steve
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #15
Islam Hassan said:
So to summarise, a particle and its anti-particle are drawn together by the electromagnetic force and then annihilate themselves via other forces by the total conversion of mass into boatloads of massless gauge bosons. In that case the 'other forces' must be the strong force since weak force gauge bosons have mass.

Is this correct? And what about a neutrino + anti-neutrino annihilation? Surely they are not drawn together by the electromagnetic force...

IH

I'm not sure honestly.
 
  • #16
Drakkith said:
I'm not sure honestly.

OK, I guess what I am trying to understand is whether annihilation is:

- Simply a nominal high-energy particle collision, except that it takes place between a particle and its anti-particle; or

- A very special type of high-energy particle collision where i) any and all particle mass is transformed 100% into non-massive high-energy particles streams and ii) the collision mechanism is different from normal high-energy collisions and/or is unique.

It's simply this thing that one keeps reading that annihilation converts both your particles into pure energy. Is it really accurate to say such a thing? In terms of %, how much mass is typically converted into massless gauge bosons in annihilation?

IH
 
  • #17
It doesn't have to be a high energy collision.
Also, depending on the particles that are annihilating you can have many different particles produced. Electron-positron commonly produce two photons, while proton-antiproton produces many different particles in addition to photons.
Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_antiproton_annihilation
Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron–positron_annihilation
 
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  • #18
Drakkith said:
It doesn't have to be a high energy collision.
Also, depending on the particles that are annihilating you can have many different particles produced. Electron-positron commonly produce two photons, while proton-antiproton produces many different particles in addition to photons.
Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proton_antiproton_annihilation
Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron–positron_annihilation

Ok, so annihilation is basically a particle collision, be high or low energy, between a particle and its anti-particle. There is nothing really special about it apart from that, be it the forces involved or the collisions products.

IH
 
Last edited by a moderator:

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