Why is electroweak grouped together?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the grouping of electroweak interactions within the Standard Model of particle physics, specifically examining the relationship between electromagnetism and the weak interaction compared to the strong interaction. Participants explore theoretical frameworks and symmetries associated with these forces.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that electromagnetism and the weak interaction are unified under the U(1)xSU(2) symmetry, while the strong interaction is described by SU(3).
  • One participant suggests that the unification of electromagnetism and weak interactions is motivated by the differing interactions of left and right-handed fermions in weak interactions.
  • Another participant clarifies that the U(1) in the Standard Model is not directly electromagnetism but rather the weak hypercharge, indicating a more complex relationship between these forces.
  • There is a discussion about the properties of SU(N) groups, with participants agreeing that all SU(N) groups contain U(1) subgroups, and further elaborating that they have N-1 such subgroups.
  • Participants discuss the rank of SU(N) being N-1, which relates to the number of U(1) subgroups present.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the existence of U(1) subgroups within SU(N) groups and the rank of these groups, but there is ongoing debate regarding the specific reasons for the unification of electromagnetism and weak interactions compared to the strong interaction.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the nature of the forces and their interactions remain unaddressed, and the discussion does not resolve the complexities of the relationships between the different gauge groups.

BWV
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If I understand the standard model correctly (a big assumption)

you have

electromagnetism - U(1) symmetry mediated by the photon
weak interaction - SU(2) symmetry mediated by the W+- & Z bosons
strong interaction - SU(3) symmetry mediated by gluons

is there any reason to view electromagnetism and the weak interaction tied together more than any other combination of the three forces there?
 
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yes there is a good reason -> it works ;-)

See http://arxiv.org/abs/0705.4264 which are very good lecture notes on this topic.

One "can" tie all three forces together in SU(5) (GUT)

The basic observation, which lead one to think about a U(1)xSU(2) unification was that Left and Right handed fermions and antifermions interact different in weak SU(2) interactions (no right handed neutrinos for instance).
 
Last edited:
also, the "U(1)" in the SM gauge group is NOT electromagnetism - it is the "weak hypercharge". so in fact, a better thing to say is:

SU(2) x U(1) == electroweak interactions mediated by W, Z, photon
SU(3) == strong interactions mediated by gluons

When SU(2) x U(1) is spontaneously broken by the Higgs, it breaks to the U(1) electromagnetism which is a COMBINATION of two U(1)'s - the hypercharge and also a subgroup of the SU(2).
 
All SU(N) groups have a U(1) subgroup, correct me if I am wrong
 
malawi_glenn said:
All SU(N) groups have a U(1) subgroup, correct me if I am wrong

i do not correct you. in fact, they have N-1 such subgroups.
 
blechman said:
i do not correct you. in fact, they have N-1 such subgroups.

Which is equivalent to saying that the rank of SU(N) is N-1 (unless I am mistaken)
 
nrqed said:
Which is equivalent to saying that the rank of SU(N) is N-1 (unless I am mistaken)

quite so. each cartan generator generates a U(1) subgroup.
 

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