Why is Matter Visible Despite Empty Space?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the visibility of matter despite the notion that atoms are mostly empty space. Participants explore the interaction of photons with electron shells and the implications for physical interactions, such as why solid objects cannot pass through one another.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why matter is visible if over 99.9% of an atom's mass is in the nucleus, suggesting that visibility is linked to photon interactions with electron shells.
  • Others argue that physical interactions occur with electron shells rather than the nucleus, raising questions about the nature of these interactions.
  • A participant poses a question about the inability to push a solid object through another, citing the concept of repelling forces and the idea that nothing truly touches at the atomic level.
  • There is a challenge to the analogy of electron orbits, with one participant stating that the orbit analogy is inept and obsolete.
  • Another participant clarifies that electrons form an orbital, which is a probability function rather than a fixed orbit, and emphasizes that this affects interactions with photons and other matter.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of electron shells and their interactions with photons and other matter. There is no consensus on the explanations provided, and several points remain contested.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the analogies used to describe electron behavior and the nature of atomic interactions, indicating a need for clearer definitions and understanding of concepts like orbitals versus orbits.

saln1
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If over 99.9% of an atom's mass is concentrated in the nucleus, the rest being "empty", why is matter (simply composed of atoms) clearly visible, rather than being largely invisible?

Also, why can't I move my hand through a solid table? Where is this empty space constituting the majority of the table?

Might be a silly question, but it's just a random thought that struck me :smile:
 
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saln1 said:
If over 99.9% of an atom's mass is concentrated in the nucleus, the rest being "empty", why is matter (simply composed of atoms) clearly visible, rather than being largely invisible?
We see via photons. Photons interact with the electron shell, not with the nucleus.

saln1 said:
Also, why can't I move my hand through a solid table? Where is this empty space constituting the majority of the table?
Same thing. We physically interact with the electron shells, not with the nucleus.

Answer this question: why can I not push a 2x4 through a basketball, even though the basketball is mostly empty space?
 
DaveC426913 said:
We see via photons. Photons interact with the electron shell, not with the nucleus.


Same thing. We physically interact with the electron shells, not with the nucleus.

Answer this question: why can I not push a 2x4 through a basketball, even though the basketball is mostly empty space?

Like forces repel each other! Nothing ever touches, it only comes close to touching!
 
DaveC426913 said:
We physically interact with the electron shells

Can you explain physically why this is? Isn't the shell just composed of electrons orbiting the nucleus, rather than being an impenetrable solid?

DaveC426913 said:
Answer this question: why can I not push a 2x4 through a basketball, even though the basketball is mostly empty space?

As above
 
The orbit analogy is inept and obsolete.
 
saln1 said:
Can you explain physically why this is? Isn't the shell just composed of electrons orbiting the nucleus, rather than being an impenetrable solid?



As above
The electrons form an orbital - a cloud; this is not the same as an orbit. An orbital is simply a function that defines the probability of finding an elelctron in a certain place if we go to look for it. It says absolutely nothing about what the electron is doing when we are not looking for it.


While not really imprenetrable, the electrons are what the photons interact with. it is also what the electron orbitals in the atoms of your hand interact with when you try to touch something.
 

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