Why Is the Chandrasekhar Limit Estimated with Unrealistic Assumptions?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the Chandrasekhar limit, particularly the assumptions made in its estimation, such as temperature, mass density, and momentum conditions. Participants explore the implications of these assumptions in the context of both classical and relativistic physics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of using the assumption of uniform mass density and the condition p >> mc in estimating the Chandrasekhar limit, suggesting it leads to unrealistic conclusions.
  • Another participant notes that if the momenta were not much greater than mc, the star would be sub-Chandrasekhar, indicating a relationship between momentum and the definition of the limit.
  • A later reply clarifies that the assumption p >> mc does not necessarily imply that velocities exceed the speed of light, suggesting that this condition may not be unphysical in a relativistic context.
  • Participants discuss the relativistic expression for momentum, contrasting it with the classical Newtonian expression, and how this affects the interpretation of the assumptions made in the calculations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the assumptions used in the estimation of the Chandrasekhar limit, with some questioning their realism while others defend their applicability in a relativistic framework. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these assumptions.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made, particularly concerning the uniform density and the implications of p >> mc. The discussion highlights the dependence on relativistic definitions and the need for clarity in the context of classical versus relativistic momentum.

quasar987
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Chadrasekhar limit

In my thermo text, we arrived at an estimate of the chandrasekhar limit using the assumptions T=0, uniform mass density and... p>>mc.

I can maaaaaybe accept that in the context of a very rough approximation, but then the text says, "A more realistic calculation, which does not suppose a uniform density, gives [itex]M_C=1.4 M_{\bigodot}[/itex]". Thats means that in their so-called more realistic calculation, they still assume the unphysical p>>mc.

That someone explain that?
 
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quasar987 said:
I can maaaaaybe accept that in the context of a very rough approximation, but then the text says, "A more realistic calculation, which does not suppose a uniform density, gives [itex]M_C=1.4 M_{\bigodot}[/itex]". Thats means that in their so-called more realistic calculation, they still assume the unphysical p>>mc.

If the momenta were not much greater than mc throughout much of the star, then the star would be sub-Chandrasekhar, practically by definition. Another way of thinking of the Chandrasekhar mass is the limit of relativistic degeneracy for a self-gravitating, electron-degenerate object.
 
Oh wait a sec. My problem is that I was thinking classically about momentum. p>>mc does not imply v>>c. So there is nothing unphysical about p>>mc.
 
quasar987 said:
In my thermo text, we arrived at an estimate of the chandrasekhar limit using the assumptions T=0, uniform mass density and... p>>mc.

Remember, in relativity, the spatial part of momentum is given by

[tex] p = \frac{mv}{\sqrt{1 - \frac{v^2}{c^2}}},[/tex]

not by the Newtonian expression [itex]p = mv[/itex].

Thu,s [itex]p >> mc[/itex] when [itex]v >> c/\sqrt{2}[/itex], so [itex]v > c[/itex] is not needed.

Edit: While I was typing, you saw the light. :smile:
 
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