Why pesistent current in a normal metal ring is a surprise?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the phenomenon of persistent current in a normal metal ring subjected to a magnetic field, exploring why this behavior is considered surprising within the context of quantum mechanics. The scope includes theoretical considerations and conceptual clarifications related to quantum states and their implications for current flow.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about why persistent current in a metal ring is surprising, citing the Hamiltonian and eigenstates that suggest every eigenstate carries a persistent current.
  • Another participant challenges the initial understanding by suggesting that practical realities, such as non-uniform potentials and decoherence, complicate the situation.
  • A different participant draws a parallel to other quantum phenomena, such as tunneling and entanglement, which are also based on simple ideas yet yield surprising results.
  • It is noted that in a many-particle state, contributions from different states nearly cancel each other out, leading to a minimal effect that underlies diamagnetism.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the reasons behind the surprise of persistent current, with multiple competing views presented regarding the simplicity of the underlying concepts versus the complexities introduced by real-world conditions.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the assumption of uniform potentials and the effects of decoherence, which are acknowledged but not resolved in the discussion.

wdlang
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i cannot understand why persistent current in a normal metal ring threaded by a magnetic field is a surprise.

the hamiltonian is

[tex]H=\frac{1}{2I}\left(-i \frac{\partial}{\partial \theta}-A\right)^2[/tex]

and the eigenstates are

[tex]\phi_m(\theta)=\frac{1}{\sqrt{2\pi}} e^{i m \theta}[/tex]

with eigenvalues

[tex]E_m=\frac{1}{2I}(m-A)^2[/tex].

It is ready to see that generally every eigenstate carries a current, a persistent one.

so why people think it is a surprise?
 
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Try doing it, and see if what you think you understand matches reality!

Zz.
 
ZapperZ said:
Try doing it, and see if what you think you understand matches reality!

Zz.

of course, in reality, the situation is more complicated, e.g., the potential is not uniform, there is decoherence.

but i think the basic idea is just too simple.
 
We shouldn't be surprised with quantum tunneling and quantum entanglement either, because the basic ideas are also very simple. Yet, we still do!

Zz.
 
In a many particle state, the contributions of the states with different m nearly cancel and there is only a very tiny fraction of that effect that survives. It forms the basis of diamagnetism.
 

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