Why should radiation lead to loss in mass @ Black holes?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of black hole radiation and its implications for mass loss in black holes, exploring theoretical aspects of energy conservation, particle behavior near event horizons, and the interpretation of the speed of light in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions why black hole radiation should lead to mass loss specifically, suggesting that mass could remain constant while velocity changes, and seeks clarification on the meaning of "c" in this context.
  • Another participant confirms that "c" refers to the speed of light, asserting that it does not change.
  • A participant provides a visualization of particle-antiparticle pairs near the event horizon, explaining that if one particle falls into the black hole, it carries negative energy, which contributes to the mass loss of the black hole.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about the simplifications made in the explanation of quantum processes and energy conservation, acknowledging that their understanding may not fully capture the complexities involved.
  • A later reply indicates that the initial question was misunderstood, but appreciates the additional information provided about particle behavior near black holes.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the implications of black hole radiation for mass loss, as there are varying interpretations and understandings of the underlying physics. Some points raised are contested or oversimplified, indicating ongoing debate.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential oversimplifications in the explanation of quantum processes and the behavior of particles near black holes, as well as unresolved questions regarding the relationship between mass, energy, and velocity in this context.

Astro.padma
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According to theory of black hole radiation, black holes are expected to emit a thermal spectrum of radiation, and thereby loss mass, owing to the E=mc2 equation. Well, everything was clear to me till I got to the last point. why should there be loss only in mass?? couldn't the mass be same and velocity change, in order to satisfy the above equation?? Let me know if am going anywhere wrong and what does the "c" represent to in this case? I mean...velocity of what??
 
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c is the speed of light - it doesn't change.
 
From the little I understand, the following is a drastic oversimplification, and is somewhat untrue, but it is a good way to visualize the process.

As you might have heard, at the quantum level, you can have particles pop out of the vacuum (a particle-anti particle pair), and then quickly combine and dissipate. This does not violate the Law of the conservation of Energy because of how fast that process happened, and in the end when they disappeared the total energy was the same as before (also an oversimplification, but take my word). Another thing you need to know is that anti-particles and particles both have positive mass and energy.

Now imagine one of these particle - anti-particle pairs appeared right on the edge of an event horizon in a black hole, now they broke free, but when they tried to recombine one of the particles was in the event horizon, and one was not. Because of this, they could not recombine and even out the total energy. But because physics says that can't happen, the way you explain the increase of total energy (represented by the particle which didn't fall into the black hole), is that the particle that did fall in had a negative energy, and when that negative energy entered the black hole it reduced the total mass of the black hole.
 
mathman said:
c is the speed of light - it doesn't change.

LOL am soo sorry for the question...I was into some thing...m really sorry...such a stupid question ! Don't know what made me think its SOME velocity at that time thankz anyways :)
 
Vorde said:
From the little I understand, the following is a drastic oversimplification, and is somewhat untrue, but it is a good way to visualize the process.

As you might have heard, at the quantum level, you can have particles pop out of the vacuum (a particle-anti particle pair), and then quickly combine and dissipate. This does not violate the Law of the conservation of Energy because of how fast that process happened, and in the end when they disappeared the total energy was the same as before (also an oversimplification, but take my word). Another thing you need to know is that anti-particles and particles both have positive mass and energy.

Now imagine one of these particle - anti-particle pairs appeared right on the edge of an event horizon in a black hole, now they broke free, but when they tried to recombine one of the particles was in the event horizon, and one was not. Because of this, they could not recombine and even out the total energy. But because physics says that can't happen, the way you explain the increase of total energy (represented by the particle which didn't fall into the black hole), is that the particle that did fall in had a negative energy, and when that negative energy entered the black hole it reduced the total mass of the black hole.

This is not what my doubt was ! but the interesting thing is you have provided an even better point...never heard this before...thx for that :)
 
No problem, I read the title of the topic and assumed what you were asking without reading the body in enough detail, whoops :)
 

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