Why was natural selection considered revolutionary?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the revolutionary nature of natural selection as proposed by Darwin, exploring its implications, assumptions, and historical context. Participants question whether natural selection is truly a novel concept or merely a formalization of existing ideas about survival and adaptation. The conversation touches on philosophical aspects of science, the relationship between natural selection and evolution, and alternative theories of life's origins and development.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that natural selection is a truism and question its novelty, suggesting that the idea that those better at surviving will survive is not enlightening.
  • Others propose that for natural selection to function, assumptions about random mutations, heredity, and beneficial mutations must be accepted, which are not universally agreed upon.
  • A few participants assert that natural selection is self-evident and does not require a label, viewing it as a straightforward concept.
  • There is a discussion about the need for heritability of variations for species change, with some stating this is a truism.
  • Alternative models to explain life, such as Lamarckian evolution and intelligent design, are mentioned, but some participants argue that Darwinism remains the only scientifically viable explanation today.
  • The historical context of Darwin's work is highlighted, noting that it was revolutionary in contrast to the dominant creationist views of his time.
  • Some participants differentiate between evolution as a broader concept and natural selection as a specific mechanism, suggesting that conflating the two is a misunderstanding.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no consensus on whether natural selection is revolutionary or merely a formalization of existing ideas. Disagreements persist regarding the assumptions necessary for natural selection to be valid and the relationship between natural selection and evolution.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the assumptions underlying natural selection, such as the nature of mutations and their heritability, are not universally accepted, leading to unresolved questions about the theory's foundations.

  • #31
Drakkith said:
Without evolution you don't have any mechanism for how changes in genes influence populations of organisms over time. Nor do you have any concept of a population's ability to adapt itself to an environment. Those people who don't believe evolution is true generally don't believe that species change over time either.

Why changes occur is due to mutation, which is irrelevant. Natural selection is a self evident, truistic account of life with or without mutation. A world in which there was no mutation wouldn't change the fact that those that are better at surviving, survive, the rest don't, and are unable to reproduce.
 
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  • #32
Pleonasm said:
A world in which there was no mutation wouldn't change the fact that those that are better at surviving, survive, the rest don't, and are unable to reproduce.

I agree in general. But that's not the issue here. Of course it's true that, given certain laws or rules, only certain consequences can result from laws and rules. This isn't truism. A truism is defined as a statement that is obviously true and says nothing new or interesting. Natural selection is, importantly, not a statement. It is a process undergone by populations of organisms, with all the complexities and subtleties of a widespread real world phenomenon. The statement that organisms that are better at surviving will survive and pass on their genes, while the others won't, is an extremely simplified description of this process. It is absolutely not a truism.

The statement that a team which scores more points will win the game is self evident, as it follows directly from the rules of whatever game you're talking about. But it is also not a truism.
 
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  • #33
The OP's question has been repeatedly answered, so to stop beating a dead horse, thread closed. Thank you all that answered his/her question.
 
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