Wikipedia shows a proof of product rule using differentials by

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the proof of the product rule using differentials, as presented in a Wikipedia article. Participants are attempting to reconcile the proof with their understanding of differentials, exploring the implications of using differentials in calculus, particularly in the context of limits and non-standard analysis.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses difficulty in correlating the proof of the product rule using differentials to the definition of a differential.
  • Another participant suggests deriving the derivative of a product using the limit of the difference function, indicating a specific formulation for the numerator.
  • A participant agrees with a previous step in the derivation but argues that the product of differentials can be neglected in the limit sense, leading to a simplified expression for the product rule.
  • Another participant reiterates the previous point about neglecting the product of differentials but questions the necessity of using limits when differentials are defined, suggesting that the product of two differentials is effectively zero.
  • One participant acknowledges the inherent limit nature of differentials but raises a question about the validity of the product of differentials being zero, referencing the use of dx dy in double integrals and suggesting that only the dominating terms are necessary in the context of the product rule.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the treatment of differentials, particularly regarding the product of differentials and the necessity of limit considerations. There is no consensus on whether the product of differentials must be zero or how to best explain this concept.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the limitations in explaining the relationship between differentials and the product rule, particularly in terms of assumptions about the behavior of differentials in calculus. The discussion reflects a reliance on specific definitions and interpretations that may not be universally accepted.

PhDorBust
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Wikipedia shows a proof of product rule using differentials by Leibniz. I am trying to correlate it to the definition of a differential and am having no success.

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Differential Definition: http://eom.springer.de/D/d031810.htm
 
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Look at how the derivative of a product of functions is derived using the limit of the difference function. The numerator would be u(x + [itex]\Delta x[/itex]) [itex]\cdot[/itex] v(x + [itex]\Delta x[/itex]) - uv.
 


You are right up to this step:

[tex]d u\cdot v = u \cdot dv + v \cdot du + du \cdot dv[/tex]

However, if differential is small, differential multiplying to another differential is much smaller, which can be neglected (In limit sense). Therefore:

[tex]d u\cdot v = u \cdot dv + v \cdot du[/tex]
 


ross_tang said:
You are right up to this step:

[tex]d u\cdot v = u \cdot dv + v \cdot du + du \cdot dv[/tex]

However, if differential is small, differential multiplying to another differential is much smaller, which can be neglected (In limit sense). Therefore:

[tex]d u\cdot v = u \cdot dv + v \cdot du[/tex]
I would think that the whole purpose of using differentials (which is basically using "non-standard analysis") and developing all the machinary necessary to even define differentials is to avoid saying "in limit sense"! In terms of differentials, the product of two differentials is 0: [itex]du\cdot v= u\cdot dv+ v\cdot du[/itex] directly.
 


I agree that differential has the meaning of limit already. But without saying so, it is rather difficult to explain why du dv = 0 in PhDorDust's example. Furthermore, I wonder if product of differentials must be zero, since we sometimes have dx dy in double integral. I think the reason is that, we only need to take the dominating term, which is u dv and v du, but not dv du.
 

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