Will accounting remain a viable career option in the future?

[Hessami]

I think that most people really have NO idea what an Accountant actually does.

And this is different from engineering how? :P

$10,000 a year on accounting for a 'small business'? What currency is that? Seems impressive. Now I know why so many parents push their kids in that direction! :P

But seriously, I see the point you're making about how we can't replace a person with a computer. And I guess it's hard for me as a layman when it comes to tax to really understand the goings on of what an accounting.

But is accounting not really just a series of decisions? Decisions that have been very meticulously documented in tax law no less. So for MOST situations, we should be able to tackle most of the basic problems quite simply.

And yes, I know, the first response will be to say "but tax law is so complex and we can't possibly include all of it in a piece of software!", perhaps the first step that needs to be taken is a simplification of the law.

Anyone that has ever read any legislation or legal writing would have to admit that it is probably some of the most convoluted and roundabout writing out there, hardly efficient. And there has been events in the past that have led to great piles of legal writing being condensed to aid in understanding.

I guess that would take some political action... probably unlikely :P

But just for the sake of argument, assuming that this could one day occur, wouldn't this leave the path open to a largely automated system with some poor guy on the end to check that what the computer already answered for him is correct, and perhaps answering one or two questions that a computer could not comprehend?

Or is this just what accountants do already? :P

 

[Sankaku]

And this is different from engineering how? :P

:-) Yeah, we should replace all the engineers with computers too!

I guess that would take some political action...

You go into politics and change tax law. I am all for it. Get back to me in 2 or 3 hundred years and let me know how it went...

 

[Hessami]

Yeah, we should replace all the engineers with computers too!

Haha, I was more referring to the fact that nobody outside either profession understands what they actually do. And trust me, we engineers are already replacing ourselves with computers, we just don't tell the general population because we like keeping ourselves in a job. :P All we really do now is sit around in our banana hammocks occasionally adjusting the figures in our computer programs that do all the work for us. ;)

You go into politics and change tax law. I am all for it. Get back to me in 2 or 3 hundred years and let me know how it went...

A sad truth. Think I'll leave that messing about for somebody else. :P

Btw, looked up Computer Generated Mathematics, thanks for the post Mr Triangle, it's a cool idea. But if we get rid of all the mathematicians who am I going to drink and watch scifi with? :D

 

[Sankaku]

And trust me, we engineers are already replacing ourselves with computers...

Personally, for any field out there, if a computer can do the work, it is probably drudge work anyway. Although it might reduce the number of low-end jobs, the best thing about computers is that they free people up to focus on things that humans are better at, like using imagination and creativity. Whether our culture wants creativity from Engineers, Accountants or anyone is the more important issue to look at, I think.

 

[twofish-quant]

People make corporate decisions, not computers. As a company owner you need people who know the rules better than you do (accountants) so that you can make educated decisions. I don't have the time (or desire) to learn tax law and also run a company.

And most importantly, you need someone to blame if it goes wrong. If some nasty looking people from the IRS show up, you can pull the accountant and if something is really, really wrong, he goes to jail and pays lots of fines and you don't.

That's what accountants and engineers do. You need someone to say "if the plane crashes, then blame me. Even though the computer did the work, I was the person that made the decision to use the numbers from the computer."

You notice that most computer programs have this statement that says "if the computer screws things up, don't blame us."

 

[avant-garde]

^ The company that made the software will take the blame. I don't see how it's any different.

 

[twofish-quant]

^ The company that made the software will take the blame. I don't see how it's any different.

Read the fine print in any software that you buy. Software companies typically disclaim all liability from software they manufacture. Now you can hire a lawyer, accountant, engineer that will take the blame if something goes bad... For a fee...

 

[avant-garde]

Just because there isn't anyone to put the blame on shouldn't be a reason for not commencing an automation... I would hope. As long as efficiency can be increased, that's all that should ideally and realistically matter.

 

[kote]

Just because there isn't anyone to put the blame on shouldn't be a reason for not commencing an automation... I would hope. As long as efficiency can be increased, that's all that should ideally and realistically matter.

It's absolutely necessary to put the blame on someone. Accountability is the only reason your bank spends the resources necessary to make sure it doesn't occasionally forget how much money is in your account. When the bank resets your account to $0 for the sake of efficiency, I sure bet you'll have a different opinion about accountability .

 

[avant-garde]

Which is why software companies that tailor those banking/accounting software will slowly begin to take responsibility for those errors... whether they like it or not. Or the bank managers/whoever's in charge behind the corporation.

Automation or not, someone will always take the blame. Here's an anology:
If McDonalds's cooks and clerks became automated, and someone got a chili with a roach in it, then the accountability would be placed on the manager since there is no cook to fire.

 

[Ronnin]

I don't think it has been said in this thread but there are many different "kinds" of accounting. Not everyone does your stereotypical auditing that most people think of when they hear the work accounting. Cost accounting has a serious role to play in any firm that produces a product from raw inputs but no one thinks of that guy who optimizes those processes as accountants. Forensic accounting is also a very up and comming sub field. So please realize, not everyone with an accounting degree becomes a slave to the ye old 10 key. One thing about all of the sub fields is the attention to detail which has been mentioned here.

 

[turbo]

I don't think it has been said in this thread but there are many different "kinds" of accounting. Not everyone does your stereotypical auditing that most people think of when they hear the work accounting. Cost accounting has a serious role to play in any firm that produces a product from raw inputs but no one thinks of that guy who optimizes those processes as accountants. Forensic accounting is also a very up and comming sub field. So please realize, not everyone with an accounting degree becomes a slave to the ye old 10 key. One thing about all of the sub fields is the attention to detail which has been mentioned here.

I didn't get into details, but when I wrote a point-of-sale and inventory-control program for a manufacturer of wood-harvesting equipment, the reason that his accountant wanted to be able to be able to toggle between first-in-first-out and first-in-last-out inventory costing was that purchased parts (vs those manufactured in-house) represented costs that were largely out of the manufacturer's control, so he wanted to leverage those costs into tax advantages. Larger components were made in-house and the owner and his designers and fabricators could find economies there. The accountant was looking for low-hanging fruit in what otherwise might have been considered "fixed costs" related to consumable commodities.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=2408240&postcount=28

 

[Locrian]

^ The company that made the software will take the blame. I don't see how it's any different.

Just because there isn't anyone to put the blame on shouldn't be a reason for not commencing an automation...

Which is why software companies that tailor those banking/accounting software will slowly begin to take responsibility for those errors...

You really don't know anything about how business works.

 

[Locrian]

As someone who works with a lot of accountants (and actually worked in an accounting firm years ago), this thread makes my head hurt. Some of this has already been noted, but deserves repeating.

The idea that accounting can be automated is deeply naive. A simple comparison between the number of accountants and the rise of computing should help dispel that myth. The accounting profession is growing and will continue to do so as long as legal regulation becomes more complex instead of simpler (which may be until the end of mankind). Entry level work is competitive, but there are lots of jobs to be had.

The reason people think the profession can be automated is that most people are only familiar with bookkeeping, which actually has seen a reduction in demand. The term “accountant” does include book keepers, but only marginally, and most accountants’ jobs are significantly different than someone who keeps books. The poster earlier who worked for Walmart was a bookkeeper, and what makes their job hard is entirely different from what makes many CPA’s jobs hard. If your view of the accounting profession is limited to bookkeepers, then you’re no different than someone who thinks of electrical engineers as electricians. All noble enterprises, certainly, but they have very different routines and require different skill sets.

Accounting has nothing to do with math (though it certainly involves some arithmetic), and requires no mathematical ability whatsoever. Sometimes, very rarely, accountants will do some statistics while auditing. Its low level stuff and isn’t that difficult. These posts early in this thread equating mathematical talent with being a good accountant are crazy. Good accountants show extreme attention to detail, are comfortable operating in complicated legal systems, and stay abreast of the continuous changes in legislation regarding their area of expertise. Great accountants are great business people, with excellent time management and interpersonal skills.

On some more subjective notes, I’ve personally seen a few accounting jobs out there that were interesting to me and seemed to require some level of problem solving and ingenuity. Furthermore, lots of accountants are businesspeople that deeply engaged in the company they work for. It is quite common for high level management and officers to have CPA’s, and they have very difficult, stressful, and rewarding jobs. Having said that, the vast majority of accounting jobs appear to me to be incredibly dull, and working with our accounting department can sometimes be aggravating (and they probably are aggravated by me as well).

Overall I’d say that the likelihood of getting an accounting job that’s as interesting as an engineering job is pretty low but hardly impossible. Entrepreneurs might well be in either profession and may not find them that different. In the long run, how far you go in either engineering or accounting may well depend on the same set of skills that aren’t taught in school – interpersonal skills, time management skills, sales skills, etc. That might well be said for most (non-university, non-government) jobs, actually.

 

[avant-garde]

You really don't know anything about how business works.

Business wants EFFICIENCY

 

[Sankaku]

Locrian. Very good post. You said it perfectly.

Business wants EFFICIENCY

Are you in business? Do you own a business? I think you should go get some real word experience.

 

[avant-garde]

Well if a particular business does not desire efficiency, I wonder how that business is doing

 

[Hessami]

the best thing about computers is that they free people up to focus on things that humans are better at, like using imagination and creativity. Whether our culture wants creativity from Engineers, Accountants or anyone is the more important issue to look at, I think.

Well put, I 100% agree with this. A lecturer of mine told me that we should embrace and utilize as much technology as we can, because any time that a computer can save you can be spent on more important and interesting pursuits.

Of course I joke about being lazy and letting the computer do all the work, but I truly hope there is room for creative engineers in society. I dread the thought of becoming that back room stereotypical engineer who is just there as the insurance in case something goes wrong. I believe that good engineering is a beautiful thing, and in my opinion rates with any art form on the planet. That's why I'm in the profession anyway.

However I do sometimes worry that this is only a niche market not appreciated by wider society.

Thank you Locrian for your post. Its nice seeing it from another perspective, it never occurred to me that Accountants may actually suffer the same problems with image as Engineers. I still maintain that engineering is way better... :P... but I can see the parallels where an entrepreneur or visionary in either field is going to do interesting things, no matter what the job description.

Funnily enough, as much as I pay out on commerce-types, I am actually quite interested in economics. :P Occasionally I like to help out friends studying commerce understand their own work, they tend to think that it's harder than it really is, where as an outsider I can come in with no background knowledge and explain their own work to them with only a knowledge of plain English, its the deceptive simplicity that makes it so interesting, much like physics and maths.

 

[Locrian]

Business wants EFFICIENCY

Not necessarily – or at least not in a straightforward sense. A corporation’s accounting impacts them on many fronts – regulatory, tax, investment, etc. Deciding how to report various items can impact one positively and another negatively. The downside risk is not always obvious, and judgment calls can be difficult to make.

It might seem efficient to you to automate critical accounting functions, but when the CFO is sitting down with regulators looking forward to massive tax penalties, an unknown future financial picture and years of legal wrangling with the software company – well, it may not seem so efficient to them.

Why, it might seem just plain stupid.

 

[Ronnin]

Here is a typical accounting question that trying to program logic for would be difficult. This is one I had to interpret just recently. A business just received a large credit from a vendor for a return of goods that the business made. This return should be, according to the rules, shown as income and therefore subject to tax. But, if this was a return of inventroy should the entire tax burdon be realized in a single accounting period (1 month). If this was "dead" inventory it's cost of goods expense (which is realized in the period that the product is sold) if sold, would most likely been distributed through multiple periods. This big issue in this question is one of timing. The timing of the transaction has big implecations on how we realize and therefore how we account for it. Is it proper to realize all of the tax detriment at one time for somethat would of most likely been a tax advantage (the costs for something you buy to sell is not taxable) distributed amongst multiple periods. A huge part of accounting decision in based in how exactly do we follow the Rules. Every accounting event is unique and therefore subject to a certain degree of interpetation. Accounting is keeping everything fair between the stakeholders in a firm; owners, creditors, and those with authority to levy tax.
To the OP, if you making a consideration as far as what profession you are considering remember this. ALL careers have their rote. The really "interesting" things no matter the field are few and sprinkled between the day to day function of any continuous task. I have a couple good friends who are engineers and they spend almost as much time as I do looking at spreadsheets. Research what you are considering. If you are truly curious go by a half price bookstore and pick up a foundation level text for the field you are considering then read and work though some problems. Its a great way to find out what type of problems you enjoy solving.