Will Biden bully Palin in the VP debate?

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OrbitalPower said:
I'm not going to vote for someone who's going to lose the popular vote and have a chance to still be elected president; I don't think that's right.
Then you shouldn't vote for Obama.
 
Gokul43201 said:
Oops!

It is certainly out of line with the rest of the polls over the last few days.

It's the Palin honeymoon. I find it quite entertaining to see such enthusiasm about someone who almost no one knows anything about - including McCain!

There was actually some concern about McCain and Palin appearing together because she upstages McCain every time. The McCain people decided to keep them together for now, but one would almost think it's a Palin-McCain ticket. ...in fact, I wonder if this might not start to intrude on McCain's ego.
 
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russ_watters said:
The lopsided-ness of this forum is not representative.

Though perhaps suggestive given that PF is probably the smartest group of people on any forum on the internet.
 
Ivan Seeking said:
There was actually some concern about McCain and Palin appearing together because she upstages McCain every time. The McCain people decided to keep them together for now, but one would almost think it's a Palin-McCain ticket. ...in fact, I wonder if this might not start to intrude on McCain's ego.


It's likely to intrude on Obama's ego long before it will McCain's!
 
chemisttree said:
It's likely to intrude on Obama's ego long before it will McCain's!

What makes you think Obama would be concerned about how Palin might upstage McCain?

Making McCain look to be the third most popular candidate in the field can't help McCain.
 
Read the latest polls and get back to me...
 
chemisttree said:
Read the latest polls and get back to me...

I'm missing the connection with the latest polls and your supposition that Obama's ego would have a problem with Palin's popularity before McCain would?
 
Perhaps most stunning is the fact that Palin’s favorable ratings are now a point higher than either man at the top of the Presidential tickets this year. As of Friday morning, Obama and McCain are each viewed favorably by 57% of voters. Biden is viewed favorably by 48%.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/palin_power_fresh_face_now_more_popular_than_obama_mccain

Or I could put it into Father Pfleger terms for you...

'...this is mine. I'm Michelle's husband and a friend of Ayers. I'm black, and this is mine. I just got to get up and step into the plate.' Then out of nowhere, 'I'm Sarah Palin!' Imitating Barak's response, screaming at the top of his lungs again, he continues, 'Ah, damn! Where did you come from? I'm black! I'm entitled! There's a woman stealing my show!'
 
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chemisttree said:
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/palin_power_fresh_face_now_more_popular_than_obama_mccain

Or I could put it into Father Pfleger terms for you...

'...this is mine. I'm Michelle's husband and a friend of Ayers. I'm black, and this is mine. I just got to get up and step into the plate.' Then out of nowhere, 'I'm Sarah Palin!' Imitating Barak's response, screaming at the top of his lungs again, he continues, 'Ah, damn! Where did you come from? I'm black! I'm entitled! There's a woman stealing my show!'

Sorry, I guess I'm not tuned into your fantasy stereotyping characterizations of the candidates then. It seems a thin substitute for a rationale.

But ultimately I suppose that same thing touches on the great Republican strategy/hope that they can cling to power through image without substance. Masquerade meanness as compassion, divisiveness as consensus, while pretending all the time that continuation is change.
 
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It's no fantasy that Palin enjoys a better favorable rating than either Obama or McCain!
Image without substance? Have you heard of Ronald Reagan?
 
Here is a picture of Sarah Palin - the woman who claims to have said "no thanks" to the bridge to nowhere. She was all for it, and claimed that it should be built as soon as possible while the Alaska Congressional delegation had the strength to make the earmarks stick. Once the bridge became a political liability, she "got the faith", but Alaska never returned the money.
http://www.washingtonindependent.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/picture-8.png

Gosh! What a pork-busting maverick she is.
 
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One point that can be drawn from this discussion is that Gov. Palin as an executive does indeed have a record of decisions for which there's no escaping responsibility. She made the call and they had consequences. It is much tougher to review Sen. Obama's record in that regard.
 
She also hired a Washington lobbyist to secure $27M in earmarks for her town of 5000-6000 while mayor of Wasilla. No pork for Sarah!
 
Maybe since Sarah Palin, given her support for the bridge to nowhere and the roughly $4K per capita for Wasilla from the Federal Government, could as well run for a beauty contest as Miss Pork Barrel? This selection by McCain would then be McCain keeping his promise to make such people dipping their scoops into the public troughs famous?
 
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chemisttree said:
It's no fantasy that Palin enjoys a better favorable rating than either Obama or McCain!
Image without substance? Have you heard of Ronald Reagan?

There's miles to go before we sleep on the polling data.

But as to your point that Obama's ego would be suffering from Palin's current popularity, I still don't see your justification, or for that matter the unfortunate stereotyping in your caricaturization of him.
 
LowlyPion said:
There's miles to go before we sleep on the polling data.

But as to your point that Obama's ego would be suffering from Palin's current popularity, I still don't see your justification, or for that matter the unfortunate stereotyping in your caricaturization of him.

He's spoofing Pfleger's sermon about Hillary. Of course I didn't like Pfleger's sermon either.
 
TheStatutoryApe said:
He's spoofing Pfleger's sermon about Hillary. Of course I didn't like Pfleger's sermon either.

Regardless that sermon had nothing to do with what I see as Obama's sense of ego or even entitlement, and I think that kind of spoofing loses greatly in translation, because racial caricaturizations culturally just cannot be treated symmetrically.
 
From the same W Post piece:
...Gov. Palin has spent far less on her personal travel than her predecessor: $93,000 on airfare in 2007, compared with $463,000 spent the year before by her predecessor, Frank Murkowski. He traveled often in an executive jet that Palin called an extravagance during her campaign. She sold it after she was sworn into office. ...
and
...state attorney general's office produced an opinion saying laws then in effect required reimbursement for spousal travel...

BTW: Sen. Biden's http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/08/26/ST2008082603569.html" is $200/day, or ~$40k/yr train travel alone, and I don't begrudge him the ride.
 
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mheslep said:
She sold it after she was sworn into office. ...

Yes she sold it apparently at a loss to the state. (Was the guy conveniently a backer?)

And yep, the state decided to list it on eBay for an asking price of $2.5-million. (The state had paid just under $2.7-million for it in 2005.)
...
But the jet's eBay listing did not prove effective, and the state never got its asking price. Instead, in 2007, the state turned to an aircraft broker, Turbo North Aviation. The jet was purchased that year by businessman Larry Reynolds, the owner of a sporting goods store and marine supply store in Valdez. Reynolds paid $2.1-million.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/691/

$2.1M is what Reynolds paid but Turbo took a commission out ot that netting the state less apparently.

None of that however apparently justifies her getting paid to live at home 312 days during her term as Governor.
 
LowlyPion said:
Yes she sold it apparently at a loss to the state.
Frank Murkowski, then governor of Alaska, bought the plane for $2.7 million in 2005. Palin, then governor of Alaska, sold it for $2.1 million (less commission) in 2007. It is unreasonable to fault her for the fact that used goods sell for less than new ones (not that reason can be had for a mere $2.1 million during silly season). The only reasonable consideration is whether it was cheaper to keep and maintain the plane, or sell it and use the proceeds to purchase alternate transportation. Say for instance, that the state got $1.9 million from the sale. Say that an average ticket on a commercial liner is $300. I have no clue if these numbers are even close. Then the proceeds from the sale would pay for over 6000 tickets. There would also be a savings in fuel and maintanance and that would buy more tickets. I wonder if the sale made sense from that point of view.
 
LowlyPion said:
Yes she sold it apparently at a loss to the state. (Was the guy conveniently a backer?)
That's not a loss. The 2005 jet was not worth $2.7M in 2007.

None of that however apparently justifies her getting paid to live at home 312 days during her term as Governor.
Please. That's $54/day you are referring to and its legal.
 
jimmysnyder said:
It is unreasonable to fault her for the fact that used goods sell for less than new ones (not that reason can be had for a mere $2.1 million during silly season). The only reasonable consideration is whether it was cheaper to keep and maintain the plane, or sell it and use the proceeds to purchase alternate transportation.

There's also the consideration of what the market value of said plane was. $2.1 Million may well be reasonable (I have no way of knowing), but Congressmen have recently gone to prison for taking bribes that were concealed in much the same way (see Duncan Hunter).
 
quadraphonics said:
see Duncan Hunter.
I did see Duncan Hunter, but found nothing. What are you referring to?
 
quadraphonics said:
There's also the consideration of what the market value of said plane was. $2.1 Million may well be reasonable (I have no way of knowing), but Congressmen have recently gone to prison for taking bribes that were concealed in much the same way (see Duncan Hunter).

Its always difficult for a public figure to play the part of entrepreneur. They're inevitably painted as a sucker, hurting the public's bottom line or as a sneaky, money grubbing politician. Aren't larger sales and procurements usually left to ministers or aids rather than the principle figure? I've never seen one of your presidents personally promoting the sale of the presidential chopper.
 
mheslep said:
Please. That's $54/day you are referring to and its legal.

And so was the previous Governor's air travel legal.

So was that her actual expense out of pocket every day for activities that involved her official capacity in office?

If she was really a reformer she wouldn't have taken that.
 
quadraphonics said:
There's also the consideration of what the market value of said plane was. $2.1 Million may well be reasonable (I have no way of knowing), but Congressmen have recently gone to prison for taking bribes that were concealed in much the same way (see Duncan Hunter).

jimmysnyder said:
I did see Duncan Hunter, but found nothing. What are you referring to?
I believe Quad means fmr Rep. Duke Cunningham, now serving 8 in the federal pen. Hunter has been a close friend of Cunningham
 
LowlyPion said:
And so was the previous Governor's air travel legal.

So was that her actual expense out of pocket every day for activities that involved her official capacity in office?

If she was really a reformer she wouldn't have taken that.

I think your efforts to demonize Palin are getting weaker everyday. Next it will be how she eats her corn flakes. "If she was really a reformer she wouldn't be eating them like that." She not a crook, she isn't afraid to make decisions, and even her mistakes aren't deal killers. The complaints sound trivial.

The more I learn about her, aside from what my friends in Alaska say, the more I think she is a different breed of politics. In a good way. I'll take her for vice before Biden. Who is also another vaguely known choice. Biden is typical, Palin is not. Typical is not "change".
 

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