VP Debate: A Battle of Words Between Edwards and Cheney

[plover]

And all those Tuesdays where Cheney was at the Senate? He was at a weekly Republican policy lunch, to which, of course, Edwards wasn't invited.

Cheney only actually presided over the Senate on two Tuesdays since becoming Veep, but then, Edwards has presided over the Senate on two Tuesdays in the same time period too...

 

[Gokul43201]

Aaaah, the power of rhetoric !

Nice catch, plover.

 

[kat]

And all those Tuesdays where Cheney was at the Senate? He was at a weekly Republican policy lunch, to which, of course, Edwards wasn't invited.

Cheney only actually presided over the Senate on two Tuesdays since becoming Veep, but then, Edwards has presided over the Senate on two Tuesdays in the same time period too...

Ummm, not so fast. Isn't the Republican Policy Lunch that you're referring to...a lunch with republican members of the senate...and wouldn't that suggest that he's present...either before of after the lunch break...

And...did Cheney say he "Presided" every tuesday..or that he was there every tuesday?

And...what was Edwards senate attendance record?...one of the worst?
Of course, we should point out that a poor senate record is probably a tactical move for those who have their eye on the Presidential office as the only senators who have made it there have had poor attendance records...thus less of a record to use against them.
The fact that these senators failed to do their jobs because their eyes were on the Presidents office isn't exactly comforting either.

 

[Gokul43201]

Okay, since we're talking about attendance, I wonder what President Bush's attendance is like ? From his oft repeated line, during the debate and elsewhere, you get the idea that he is a very hard working Prez.

Anyone got the numbers on this ?

Not that I doubt his effort at all...I'm sure he probably took way, way less time off than any of the past Presidents; what with 9/11 and 2 wars and the security threat, and the unemployment and the deficit !

 

[russ_watters]

His "off time" gets a lot of press, but a president isn't really ever off. In Moore's movie, he points out that he's on vacation a lot and shows a quick clip of him lounging at his ranch...with Tony Blair.

 

[BobG]

Ummm, not so fast. Isn't the Republican Policy Lunch that you're referring to...a lunch with republican members of the senate...and wouldn't that suggest that he's present...either before of after the lunch break...

And...did Cheney say he "Presided" every tuesday..or that he was there every tuesday?

And...what was Edwards senate attendance record?...one of the worst?
Of course, we should point out that a poor senate record is probably a tactical move for those who have their eye on the Presidential office as the only senators who have made it there have had poor attendance records...thus less of a record to use against them.
The fact that these senators failed to do their jobs because their eyes were on the Presidents office isn't exactly comforting either.

I don't know how many intentionally miss votes to reduce their record, but you do have a point about the disadvantages of being a congessional member vs. a governor. It's lot harder for a senator to be elected president when you can snatch votes on issues from a different era and display them in today's environment. It's harder to accumulate that kind of record on a governor.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

The President of the Senate can't remember meeting another Senator THREE TIMES!

Fit for duty eh? Perhaps that conviction Cheney conveys really comes from not knowing better.

 

[kat]

The President of the Senate can't remember meeting another Senator THREE TIMES!

Fit for duty eh? Perhaps that conviction Cheney conveys really comes from not knowing better.

Lol, I think Edwards just wasn't "memory worthy", considering his lack of activity in the Senate.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Cheney sure had that famous conviction and tone when he proudly announced that he and Edwards had never met - the same tone used when he defends the war.

He was completely sure of himself. He had conviction!

 

[Moonbear]

Dick Cheney: "Now, in my capacity as vice president, I am the president of Senate, the presiding officer. I'm up in the Senate most Tuesdays when they're in session."

Cheney has an interesting definition of "most." He has presided over the Senate on TWO Tuesdays in the past 4 years, exactly the same number of times Edwards has presided as acting president pro tempore.

Extracted from the Congressional Record (I didn't go through every single date listed, but took a random sampling to verify the accuracy):
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/crecord/index.html

Here is a list of who has presided over the Senate for every Tuesday session in 2001-2004.

2001
January 30 - Enzi
February 6 - Chafee
February 13 - Chafee
February 27 - Allen
March 6 - Burns
March 13 - Reid
March 20 - DeWine
March 27 - Chafee
April 3 - Smith
April 24 - Chafee
May 1 - Chafee
May 8 - Chafee
May 15 - Frist
May 22 - Chafee
June 5 - Enzi
June 12 - Byrd
June 19 - Carper
June 26 - Bayh
July 10 - Nelson
July 17 - Clinton
July 24 - Byrd
July 31 - Stabenaw
September 25 - Wellstone
October 2 - Clinton
October 9 - Clinton
October 16 - Edwards
October 23- Byrd
October 30 - Bingaman
November 13 - Murray
November 27 - Jeffords
December 4 - Stabenaw
December 11 - Carnahan
December 18 - Nelson

2002
Tue 1/29 - Nelson
Tue 2/5 - Kohl
Tue 2/12 - Stabenow
Tue 2/26 - Landrieu
Tue 3/5 - Edwards
Tue 3/12 - Landrieu
Tue 3/19 - Miller
Tue 4/9 - Cleland
Tue 4/16 - Reed
Tue 4/23 - Wellstone
Tue 4/30 - Nelson
Tue 5/7 - Miller
Tue 5/14 - Cleland
Tue 5/21 - Nelson
Tue 6/4 - Durbin
Tue 6/11 - Corzine
Tue 6/18 - Dayton
Tue 6/25 - Landrieu
Tue 7/9 - Reed
Tue 7/16 - Corzine
Tue 7/23 - Reed
Tue 7/30 - Clinton
Tue 9/3 - Reed
Tue 9/10 - Corzine
Tue 9/17 - Reid
Tue 9/24 - Stabenow
Tue 10/1 - Miller
Tue 10/8 - Miller
Tue 10/15 - Reid
Tue 11/12 - Cheney
Tue 11/19 - Barkley (MN)


2003
Jan 7 - Cheney
Jan 14 Stevens
Jan 22 Stevens
Jan 28 Stevens
Feb 4 Stevens
Feb 11 Stevens
Feb 25 Stevens
Mar 4 Stevens
Mar 11 Stevens
Mar 18 Stevens
Mar 25 Stevens
Apr 1 Stevens
Apr 8 Stevens
Apr 29 Stevens
May 6 Talent
May 13 Ensign
May 20 Alexander
June 3 Stevens
June 10 Stevens
June 18 Murkowski
June 24 Coleman
July 8 Stevens
July 15 Stevens
July 22 Chaffee
July 29 Stevens
Sept 2 Stevens
Sept 9 Stevens
Sept 16 Stevens
Sept 23 Stevens
Sept 30 Sununu
Oct 21 Stevens
Oct 28 Stevens
Nov 4 Stevens
Nov 11 Warner
Nov 18 Stevens
Dec 9 Stevens

2004
1/20 - Stevens
1/27 - Enzi
2/3 - Stevens
2/10 - Stevens
3/2 - Stevens
3/9 - Hagel
3/16 - Sununu
3/23 - Stevens
3/30 - Ensign
4/6 - Cornyn
4/20 - Stevens
4/27 - Chambliss
5/4 - Stevens
5/11 - Stevens
5/18 - Stevens
6/1 - Stevens
6/8 - Hutchinson
6/15 - Stevens
6/22 - Allard
7/6 - Burns
7/13 - Stevens
7/20 - Enzi
9/7 - Stevens
9/14 - Chafee
9/21 - Enzi
9/28 - Stevens
10/05 - Stevens

 

[member 5645]

edit, I don't really care. Will just watch the fireworks.

 

[kat]

Moonbear, You're really barking up the wrong tree. It would be VERY rare for the VP to regularly preside over the senate meetings, instead the senate chooses a President Pro Tempore (President for a time) to preside for the VP. Maybe it's a little to nuanced for the left (!) but Cheney never said he was up thaare in the senate presiding every Tuesday...He said he's up in the Senate most Tuesdays when they're in session
Edward, as a Senator...would be expected to attend Senate meetings...he's been somewhat AWOL...hence he's been labeled "not re-electable" in his own state.

 

[Moonbear]

Kat, of course I know that the president pro tem usually resides over Senate sessions, it wasn't necessary to be snide about that. That's the reason I went looking for more details about Cheney's comment. As for the "Senator Gone" comment, the Pilot Newspaper, which is Edwards' hometown paper, has published an explanation of how that comment was, as is typical of the Bush/Cheney campaign, taken out of context:

http://www.thepilot.com/opinion/100604PilotEditorial2.html

But we also wrote: “Members of the senator’s staff point out that Edwards’ attendance record this year has been better than the three other Democratic senators who are campaigning for president — Joe Lieberman, Richard Gephardt and Bob Graham. And the aides also say none of the votes Edwards missed was close, so his presence on the floor would not have changed the outcome.”

If you read through some of the criticisms of Edwards in North Carolina, it's actually not that he isn't voting, but that his voting record is liberal and they wanted a conservative.

 

[kat]

Kat, of course I know that the president pro tem usually resides over Senate sessions, it wasn't necessary to be snide about that.

So...you make this loooooong detailed post about Cheney not presiding over senate knowing full well that it wouldn't be something a VP would regularly do...presenting it as though he's been neglecting his duty...and I'm the one who's snide? Hello? *BoNk*

That's the reason I went looking for more details about Cheney's comment. As for the "Senator Gone" comment, the Pilot Newspaper, which is Edwards' hometown paper, has published an explanation of how that comment was, as is typical of the Bush/Cheney campaign, taken out of context:

http://www.thepilot.com/opinion/100604PilotEditorial2.html

I didn't say anything abotu the Senator Gone" comment...but evidently, considering the way you took Cheney's comment you're as guilty as anyone of taking things out of context...and it's pot calling kettle black

If you read through some of the criticisms of Edwards in North Carolina, it's actually not that he isn't voting, but that his voting record is liberal and they wanted a conservative.

Actually, now that you mention that I do remember reading somewhere that, IN PART, he was not re-electable because he ran on a moderate platform and yet has consistently voted far left.

 

[Moonbear]

So...you make this loooooong detailed post about Cheney not presiding over senate knowing full well that it wouldn't be something a VP would regularly do...presenting it as though he's been neglecting his duty...and I'm the one who's snide? Hello? *BoNk*

Nope, what I took as snide was this comment:

Maybe it's a little to nuanced for the left (!)

I was providing the evidence for the statement that Cheney has only presided over two sessions. The statement was brought up earlier too and refutes Cheney's statement that he is presiding over the senate. According to the Constitution, that is his job, but the reality is that most VPs defer that role to the President Pro Tem, so his using that statement to give weight to the statement that followed it was misleading. My post wasn't all that detailed, it was just a list.

I didn't say anything abotu the Senator Gone" comment...but evidently, considering the way you took Cheney's comment you're as guilty as anyone of taking things out of context...and it's pot calling kettle black

Nope, you didn't say "Senator Gone." Cheney did. This thread is about the debate.

You did, however, say:

he's been somewhat AWOL...hence he's been labeled "not re-electable" in his own state.

Perhaps you weren't referring to the "Senator Gone" comment that Cheney made (he did still make that comment), but I'm not sure how else you intended to use the term "AWOL." It didn't seem to be in the context of military service.

Actually, now that you mention that I do remember reading somewhere that, IN PART, he was not re-electable because he ran on a moderate platform and yet has consistently voted far left.

On that, yes, he is a Democratic candidate, and votes consistent with that party, so I would agree it's not likely he'd get re-elected to the Senate in a Republican state. But Cheney didn't say he wasn't re-electable in his state, he chose to refer to the "Senator Gone" angle.

 

[plover]

Just for the record here's the transcript of Cheney's remark.

Originally said by VP Cheney
The reason they keep trying to attack Halliburton is because they want to obscure their own record.

And Senator, frankly, you have a record in the Senate that's not very distinguished. You've missed 33 out of 36 meetings in the Judiciary Committee, almost 70 percent of the meetings of the Intelligence Committee.

You've missed a lot of key votes: on tax policy, on energy, on Medicare reform.

Your hometown newspaper has taken to calling you "Senator Gone." You've got one of the worst attendance records in the United States Senate.

Now, in my capacity as vice president, I am the president of Senate, the presiding officer. I'm up in the Senate most Tuesdays when they're in session.

The first time I ever met you was when you walked on the stage tonight.

Hmm... in context Cheney's remarks are also an ad hominem argument.

Might as well include Edwards response too.

Originally said by Sen. Edwards
That was a complete distortion of my record. I know that won't come as a shock.

The vice president, I'm surprised to hear him talk about records. When he was one of 435 members of the United States House, he was one of 10 to vote against Head Start, one of four to vote against banning plastic weapons that can pass through metal detectors.

He voted against the Department of Education. He voted against funding for Meals on Wheels for seniors. He voted against a holiday for Martin Luther King. He voted against a resolution calling for the release of Nelson Mandela in South Africa.

It's amazing to hear him criticize either my record or John Kerry's.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Of course the truth of the matter is that they vote when they need to. The rest is already a done deal; which is why they don't bother to show up.