Wolfram Alpha (free) Limitations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the limitations of the free version of Wolfram Alpha in solving integrals, particularly focusing on two specific integrals involving parameters and their behavior as certain limits are approached. Participants explore the differences in results obtained from Wolfram Alpha, MATLAB, and Mathematica, examining the implications of these differences on the understanding of the integrals.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the first integral yields a sensible answer with an inverse ##\tanh## function that diverges as ##u \to 1##, while the second integral produces a more complicated result without divergence.
  • Another participant shares their experience using MATLAB, highlighting that one integral returned NaN while the other produced a complex expression involving ##\mathrm{atanh}##.
  • Mathematica's results for both integrals are presented, showing that the second integral's result is the same as the first but with ##a## replaced by ##1/a##.
  • There is a discussion about the derivatives of the functions resulting from the integrals being the same, despite differences in the forms of the functions themselves.
  • One participant expresses surprise at discovering that the second arctan function has a pole when ##u=1##, leading to divergence.
  • Another participant recounts a past correspondence with Wolfram regarding the integrator's limitations, noting that substitutions may not be handled well in the free version and expressing concern over the inclusion of complex functions in solutions for real integrals.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the performance of Wolfram Alpha compared to other computational tools, with some agreeing on its limitations while others provide contrasting experiences. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to handling such integrals and the implications of the results obtained from different software.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity introduced by parameter substitutions and the behavior of the integrals at specific limits, indicating that the results may depend on the definitions and assumptions made during the calculations.

PeroK
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When I put the following integral into the free version of Wolfram I get a sensible answer:
$$\int \frac{1}{(1 - \frac 1 u)\sqrt{\frac 1 u - a}}du$$The function includes an inverse ##\tanh## function that (as expected) diverges as ##u \to 1##. But, if I try:
$$\int \frac{1}{(1 - \frac 1 u)\sqrt{\frac 1 u - \frac 1 a}}du$$I get a much more complicated result without the inverse ##\tanh##, which appears not to diverge as ##u \to 1##.

The moral is, I guess, even simplifying a single parameter can make things easier for the engine.
 
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Interesting. For comparison, I carried out the integral in MATLAB using the Symbolic Math Toolbox. Here is the code I used:
Matlab:
syms u a
ex1 = 1 ./ ((1 - 1/u) .* sqrt(1/u - a));
i1 = int(ex1, u);

ex2 = 1 ./ ((1 - 1/u) .* sqrt(1/u - 1/a));
i2 = int(ex2, u);

u = 1;

simplify(subs(i1))
simplify(subs(i2))

Line 10 returned NaN.

Line 11 returned the following expression:
$$\sqrt{-a}\,\mathrm{atanh}\left(\sqrt{-a}\,\sqrt{\frac{a-1}{a}}\right)\,\left(a+2\right)-a\,\sqrt{\frac{a-1}{a}}+\frac{\mathrm{atan}\left(\frac{{\left(a\,\left(a-1\right)\right)}^{7/2}\,\sqrt{\frac{a-1}{a}}\,1{}\mathrm{i}}{a^3\,{\left(a-1\right)}^4}\right)\,\sqrt{a\,\left(a-1\right)}\,2{}\mathrm{i}}{a-1}$$
It still has ##\mathrm{atanh}##, but is not NaN.
 
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1644524434807.png
 
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Mathematica gives the following result for the original integral:
$$-\frac{(2 a+1) \tan ^{-1}\left(\frac{\sqrt{\frac{1}{u}-a}}{\sqrt{a}}\right)}{a^{3/2}}-\frac{u \sqrt{\frac{1}{u}-a}}{a}+\frac{2 \tan ^{-1}\left(\frac{\sqrt{\frac{1}{u}-a}}{\sqrt{a-1}}\right)}{\sqrt{a-1}}$$ For the second integral, it gives the same answer with ##a## replaced by ##1/a##.
 
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vela said:
Mathematica gives the following result for the original integral:
$$-\frac{(2 a+1) \tan ^{-1}\left(\frac{\sqrt{\frac{1}{u}-a}}{\sqrt{a}}\right)}{a^{3/2}}-\frac{u \sqrt{\frac{1}{u}-a}}{a}+\frac{2 \tan ^{-1}\left(\frac{\sqrt{\frac{1}{u}-a}}{\sqrt{a-1}}\right)}{\sqrt{a-1}}$$ For the second integral, it gives the same answer with ##a## replaced by ##1/a##.
Suprisingly the derivatives of those functions are the same:
$$\frac{d}{du}\bigg (\frac{2 \tan ^{-1}\left(\frac{\sqrt{\frac{1}{u}-a}}{\sqrt{a-1}}\right)}{\sqrt{a-1}} \bigg ) = \frac{d}{du}\bigg (-\frac{2 \tanh ^{-1}\left(\frac{\sqrt{\frac{1}{u}-a}}{\sqrt{1-a}}\right)}{\sqrt{1-a}} \bigg )$$
When Wolfram produced the version with the second ##\tan^{-1}## function, I thought it must be wrong, as I needed the ##\tanh^{-1}## to convert to a log function.
 
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It took me awhile to figure out how it diverged. When ##u=1##, the argument of the second arctan is equal to ##i##, and apparently, arctan has a pole there. I never knew that.
 
PeroK said:
Suprisingly the derivatives of those functions are the same:
$$\frac{d}{du}\bigg (\frac{2 \tan ^{-1}\left(\frac{\sqrt{\frac{1}{u}-a}}{\sqrt{a-1}}\right)}{\sqrt{a-1}} \bigg ) = \frac{d}{du}\bigg (-\frac{2 \tanh ^{-1}\left(\frac{\sqrt{\frac{1}{u}-a}}{\sqrt{1-a}}\right)}{\sqrt{1-a}} \bigg )$$
When Wolfram produced the version with the second ##\tan^{-1}## function, I thought it must be wrong, as I needed the ##\tanh^{-1}## to convert to a log function.
Of course, the functions apply to different regions. The LHS is valid for ##a > 1## and the RHS for ##a < 1##.
 
I once had a correspondence with Wolfram about their integrator. I had an integral that it wouldn't solve at all that I thought "ought" to be solvable. Similar to the OP case, I made the most obvious variable substitution, which made it no easier for me, but then Wolfram solved it no problem. Wolfram actually claimed that they didn't consider this a bug, and that the same would have happened on the fully paid version. It may have changed since, but they said Mathematica and Alpha do not do substitutions per se, and there would always be cases like the one I ran into.

I am also bothered by a tendency of the free version to unnecessarily include complex functions in their solutions for real integrals.

The upshot is you should only use it as an assist, combined with standard hand methods, which is fine. I am not normally looking for a black box to do everything.
 
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