Engineering Working half time as an engineer?

[bentley4]

Can an engineer find work half time? I mean work 4 days a week for example?
You already make enough money anyway.
Could one work half time for a consultancy bureau?

 

[TMFKAN64]

Yes, part-time jobs definitely exist. However, they are much rarer than full-time positions for obvious reasons.

 

[EMFsmith]

i work a full time engineering job but the days I am at work I am there for 14 hours, so basically i do full time hours but never do more than 4 days a week, it feels like part time work, oh and i always get the last 8 days of the month off, life is good

 

[bentley4]

Thnx for your responses.
What are the 'obvious reasons' exactly why half time jobs are much rarer?
Higher % employee costs for their total output, Half time jobs are not frequently in demand by engineers themselves anyway, projects have certain deadlines and employers can't be that picky in taking on projects that would only suit into your timeframe, ... ?

 

[Jobrag]

In the oil and gas business it is quite common to work 28:28 that is 28 days at work followed by 28 days leave, when working it's 28 X 12 hour shifts, no days of, but 28 (actually 26 if if you include travel at each end) days leave is good.

 

[bentley4]

Thnx Jobrag. That is an extremely useful reply.
That would absolutely not work for me.
I work best when I work 3-4 days, and have 1-2 days off and repeat. I need time to process everything because I like to learn a maximum amount from a minimum effort.
In this free time I likely would evaluate what I did and think about how I could improve certain things, learn new skills, etc.
Any other type specific working hours for engineers as in the oil and gass business?

 

[TMFKAN64]

Thnx for your responses.
What are the 'obvious reasons' exactly why half time jobs are much rarer?
Higher % employee costs for their total output, Half time jobs are not frequently in demand by engineers themselves anyway, projects have certain deadlines and employers can't be that picky in taking on projects that would only suit into your timeframe, ... ?

Yes.

I'd say the biggest problem is that employers want you to be available to put out fires. If a customer is having a problem, they want someone to work on that problem *now*, not be "Sorry, I won't be in until the middle of the week..."

In my experience, it's usually the more specialized engineers who have rarer skills who can demand part-time jobs and get them.

 

[bentley4]

Ok, I understand. I thought a lot of engineers worked in a team? Can't they call/skype for solving problems with their team(House style). I mean, I have no problem even being available during the night to think about a problem, but I don't always want to be physically there.
So, which engineers are regarded as sufficiently specialised to be able to work half time?

 

[fss]

I've been in the engineering and services industry for 15+ years and do not know one instance of an engineer being hired out of unemployment to work "half time."

The reason is because nobody wants to hire someone half time when they could hire them full time. If they are facing financial constraints that prevent them from hiring a full-time employee, the work load gets pushed on existing employees.

 

[bentley4]

Thnx for your response.
"...do not know one instance of an engineer being hired out of unemployment to work "half time."
Do you imply that after working a while with a certain company it is not unrealistic?
Can't you negociate for a smaller wage to compensate for their disadvantages of hiring you to work half time?

 

[TMFKAN64]

Ok, I understand. I thought a lot of engineers worked in a team? Can't they call/skype for solving problems with their team(House style). I mean, I have no problem even being available during the night to think about a problem, but I don't always want to be physically there.

I'm a computer engineer, so that's the field that I'm most familiar with.

While there is definitely a team working on every large piece of software, very often there are one or two engineers who are directly responsible for a particular feature. Other engineers might know a little about the feature... but not necessarily enough to debug complex problems.

I see the problems with this often, as I'm currently working two part-time jobs: one 60%, and one 30%. If there is a problem at one job, I am simply not available to fix it, as I am working somewhere else. It takes a *lot* of patience for an employer to put up with this.

(Oh, and I was hired at a different company at 60% from being unemployed a few years ago. So it *does* happen, although I think it's very rare.)

 

[TMFKAN64]

Can't you negociate for a smaller wage to compensate for their disadvantages of hiring you to work half time?

The problem is that by asking for part-time work, you are essentially telling them that you don't really care about the job enough to do it full-time. Generally employers prefer to hire people who are more invested in their job than this, unless they absolutely have to.

 

[bentley4]

by asking for part-time work, you are essentially telling them that you don't really care about the job enough to do it full-time.

It's rather the opposite. I care so much about the quality of my work that I would take extra unpayed time to perfect it, think about it, making me a better engineer. It all depends on how your learning process is. Different people learn in different ways. Some people learn better case by case, others learn better by pure deduction from a single case.
I am an INTJ according to the myers-briggs type indicator. I think the most prominent off all types in the engineering field is ISTP(just a hypothesis) and they learn in a different way.
ISTP's are faster in fixing a completely new problem, but INTJ's draw deeper insight from each situation.
But I can imagine most employers do not make this distinction and completely neglect personality types. Do you think some employers would be open for this if you would consicely describe your most efficient working style and complete persona?
It took years to develop this personality typology. Even though it has a debatable basis, an employer claiming to know better how you work most efficient is basically saying his insight about personalities and their learning abilities is more insightful then a complete typology.
It should be possible to show this to them, gently, without implying any incompetence on their part. Depends on which MBTI type your boss has how easily they will understand.
What do you think?

 

[TMFKAN64]

It's rather the opposite. I care so much about the quality of my work that I would take extra unpayed time to perfect it, think about it, making me a better engineer.

...

But I can imagine most employers do not make this distinction and completely neglect personality types. Do you think some employers would be open for this if you would consicely describe your most efficient working style and complete persona?

...

It should be possible to show this to them, gently, without implying any incompetence on their part.

The problem is, regardless of your intention, it is taken as a sign of lack of seriousness. You can explain until you are blue in the face. But usually they will ignore you and hire someone full-time instead.

 

[EMFsmith]

The problem is, regardless of your intention, it is taken as a sign of lack of seriousness. You can explain until you are blue in the face. But usually they will ignore you and hire someone full-time instead.

Agreed, i wanted to find a part time position so i could pursue my interests in physics, now I am stuck in the pickle of trying to study part time and hold down a full time job.

 

[bentley4]

Thank you for your responses again guys.
Wow, that is a downer. I thought engineers were wanted much more then presented here.
So basically, in engineering, the only way to do 'a part time job' as I described is by having your own company? I read that a lot of engineers just start of with the typical very technical stuff but a lot of them end up doing something completely different. Within those different jobs, do you see room for a part time arrangement as I described earlier?

 

[EMFsmith]

Start at with the basics and work your way up mate, i don't know what field you specialise in but at the end of the day you need to get on the ladder, and the first rung is as good a place as any to start!

Not to say you should aim low but aim somewhere, find what you want to do in particular and try bloody hard to get into that, but always have a few other plans of attack!

 

[bentley4]

Thnx, that's some good advice!
The reason why I ask so many questions is because I am just seriously considering studying engineering. I think I have a fairly good idea of how hard the studies are, it's bloody hard. I will at least need 1 year to study before I can even begin going to college. And I don't want to be studying like a nut for at least 4 years after that to end up realising that this isn't the life I imagined it to be.

 

[EMFsmith]

Long hours, Sometimes tedious and monotonous work, but at the end of the day, A BLOODY GOOD SALARY!
Thats what I've found, personally i wish i earned half the amount but did something Physics based, i chose money over passion and ended up regretting it, try not to make the same mistakes, if you want to do engineering then go for it mate, do what you can to get a foothold in this very competitive market and then do what you can to prove yourself. Thats really the best advice i can give on a personal level, other that scour the forums for other information, there's far more intellectually and academically qualified people in this forum :)

 

[bentley4]

Thnx for your reply EMFsmith.
I have the same opinion. I love pure physics, much more then just engineering. But from what I've read chances of finding a good job is so much harder. It's silly knowing so much information for such limited possibilities. Completely disproportional, unless you are very good. Engineering is the best way to go I figure if I want to be able to provide a decent income for a girlfriend and family one day perhaps. You say you regretted it, but how can you be so sure you would get a decent job? What would you have liked to do?
My interest is mainly grasping physics to a full extent, I'm not so much interested in doing experiments. And there's very little use for theoretical physicists right now I reckon.

 

[elkement]

Hi bentley4,

I can relate a lot to you plans and wishes - and I can also relate to most of the advice that have been given in this thread. As TMFKAN64 I also know software engineering best.

It took me some years of over-committed full-time jobs to find out that I rather would like to work less (as the remaining money is more than sufficient anyway) and pursue other interests - such as working on a more physics-related project again, studying or giving a lecture at a university myself.
I managed to negotiate on a 4 days week with my previous employer (software industry), though at that time this was really an exception. Then I started my own company which made things much easier.

Speaking from these experiences I can confirm that the higher specialized you are the easier it is to work this way. I think that specialization alone is not sufficient still: Especially if you work self-employed you need to be known as a renowned expert in the respective technical community you are part of. In this case you are able to select engagements that fit your style of working. It is very important that you are not forced to jump though every hoop offered to you by your employer or by your clients (forced by financial requirements or work contracts).

I have e.g. stopped to fully engage in large projects or take operational responsibilities - I am rather working as a reviewer or I am engaged in a project only in very specific (typically critical) phases. Of course this requires you to have a lot of hands-on experience with all aspects of these technical projects - so that in principle you could do it all, but you select to do only the interesting / tough stuff (which is also well paid).

So in summary I think that - unfortunately - working part-time is an option that should rather be part of your long-term plan. I would say that it took me some years working in a very specific field until I was able to control and shape my work style (or negotiate for it in an environment not yet prepared for it). But personally I feel that this is gradually changing (I should say that I am from middle Europe BTW). I feel that more and more young professionals are rather asking their employers for flexible working hours, even if this damages their 'classical corporate career'.

 

[bentley4]

Dear Elkement.

Thank you, that's some really useful stuff you wrote. I'm happy to hear that you get the feeling that things are slowly changing. If I would graduate, it would still be at least 5 years from now and hopefully the job market has matured a little by then. I can imagine the economical climate would be more relaxed as well(kondratieff cycle).

 

[bentley4]

Correction, according to the kondratieff cycle it is going to get even worse.

 

[Ryker]

I am an INTJ according to the myers-briggs type indicator. I think the most prominent off all types in the engineering field is ISTP(just a hypothesis) and they learn in a different way.
ISTP's are faster in fixing a completely new problem, but INTJ's draw deeper insight from each situation.
But I can imagine most employers do not make this distinction and completely neglect personality types. Do you think some employers would be open for this if you would consicely describe your most efficient working style and complete persona?
It took years to develop this personality typology. Even though it has a debatable basis, an employer claiming to know better how you work most efficient is basically saying his insight about personalities and their learning abilities is more insightful then a complete typology.
It should be possible to show this to them, gently, without implying any incompetence on their part. Depends on which MBTI type your boss has how easily they will understand.
What do you think?

Thank you, that's some really useful stuff you wrote. I'm happy to hear that you get the feeling that things are slowly changing. If I would graduate, it would still be at least 5 years from now and hopefully the job market has matured a little by then. I can imagine the economical climate would be more relaxed as well(kondratieff cycle).

It seems to me you've gotten superficially acquainted with a lot of "big" terms and concepts and are now misapplying them in the situation that is way more complex than they can ever be used for. My advice is to stop concerning yourself with what type you are according to whatever scale, because you're not doing youself a favour by doing so. You're actually making things worse (ie. a little knowledge is a dangerous thing and all that), but luckily other people have already offered great advice. So just try and focus on what actally interests you and go from there. I think there will always be ways to work a flexible schedule, not just in engineering, so you shouldn't really make this the centerpiece of your decision on what to study.

 

[bentley4]

K, thnx for your input Ryker. I never quantified in how much they contribute in my decision what to study. These were just some extra insights I presented. The length of my phrases was not proportional to its importance in this case and I didn't give the full range of my motivations. I agree that I should be careful in how much they weigh in my decision.

 

[jasonRF]

I just want to add another perspective. It may depend upon where you live; I live in the US. My wife is an engineer and works 60%. We recently hired an engineer at my workplace that works something like 60%, joining at least 3 others in our group. I used to work with an engineer that worked 50% so she could pay her bills; the rest of her week was spent working as a musician for little money. A couple weeks ago I recevied a "headhunter" call from a competitor that mentioned "standard" 28-hour (and other) work-week options. Sure, the vast majority of us engineers work full-time. But it is possible to find part-time work. The better you are, the easier it will be.

good luck,

jason

 

[bentley4]

Thanks Jason!

I just want to add another perspective. It may depend upon where you live; I live in the US. My wife is an engineer and works 60%. We recently hired an engineer at my workplace that works something like 60%, joining at least 3 others in our group. I used to work with an engineer that worked 50% so she could pay her bills; the rest of her week was spent working as a musician for little money. A couple weeks ago I recevied a "headhunter" call from a competitor that mentioned "standard" 28-hour (and other) work-week options. Sure, the vast majority of us engineers work full-time. But it is possible to find part-time work. The better you are, the easier it will be.

good luck,

jason