Would someone clarify this for me please? (from Rudin's analysis)

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Arian.D
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Analysis
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a theorem from Rudin's analysis concerning Riemann-Stieltjes integrability. Participants explore the conditions under which a bounded function with finitely many points of discontinuity can be integrated with respect to a continuous function at those points. The focus is on understanding the proof, particularly the selection of intervals and their properties in relation to the continuity of the function involved.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how it is possible to cover the set of discontinuities with intervals such that the sum of the differences α(vj) - α(uj) is less than ε.
  • Another participant suggests that it is always possible to choose a finite number of intervals whose lengths sum to less than any positive quantity, providing an example of how to achieve this.
  • A response clarifies that the intervals must be chosen in a way that considers the continuity of α, emphasizing that the sum of the differences must be less than ε, which differs from the previous claim about lengths.
  • Further clarification is provided regarding the notation R(α), explaining it as the set of Riemann-Stieltjes integrable functions, with the assumption that α is an increasing function.
  • One participant acknowledges understanding after the clarifications, indicating a resolution to their initial confusion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of the intervals and their properties in relation to the proof. While some agree on the ability to choose intervals with certain properties, the specifics of how these intervals relate to the continuity of α remain contested.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence on the properties of the function α and the specific conditions under which the theorem holds. There are unresolved aspects regarding the application of continuity and the selection of intervals, which may affect the understanding of the proof.

Arian.D
Messages
101
Reaction score
0
Theorem: Suppose f is bounded on [a,b], f has only finitely many points of discontinuity on [a,b], and α is continuous at every point at which f is discontinuous. Then f is in R(α).

Proof: Let ε>0 be given. Put M=sup|f(x)|, let E be the set of points at which f is discontinuous. Since E is finite and α is continuous at every point of E, we can cover E by finitely many disjoint intervals [uj, vj] in [a,b] such that the sum of the corresponding differences α(vj)-α(uj) is less than ε.

Why this is true? I understand that we can cover E by those finitely many disjoint intervals, but I don't understand why we could cover E in such a way the sum of the corresponding differences α(vj)-α(uj) would be less than epsilon.

Any help would be appreciated.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Arian.D said:
Theorem: Suppose f is bounded on [a,b], f has only finitely many points of discontinuity on [a,b], and α is continuous at every point at which f is discontinuous. Then f is in R(α).

Proof: Let ε>0 be given. Put M=sup|f(x)|, let E be the set of points at which f is discontinuous. Since E is finite and α is continuous at every point of E, we can cover E by finitely many disjoint intervals [uj, vj] in [a,b] such that the sum of the corresponding differences α(vj)-α(uj) is less than ε.

Why this is true? I understand that we can cover E by those finitely many disjoint intervals, but I don't understand why we could cover E in such a way the sum of the corresponding differences α(vj)-α(uj) would be less than epsilon.

Any help would be appreciated.



You can always choose a finite number of intervals (or even an infinite countable number of them) s.t. that their

lenghts' sum is less than any predefined positive quantity...

For example, the sum of lengths of [itex]\,\,[a_n,b_n]\,\,,\,\,n=1,2,...k\,\,[/itex] is less that [itex]\,\,\epsilon>0\,\,[/itex] if [itex]\,\,b_n-a_n\leq\frac{\epsilon}{2^n}\,\,[/itex].

BTW, what is that "a" and what is R(a)??

DonAntonio
 
DonAntonio said:
You can always choose a finite number of intervals (or even an infinite countable number of them) s.t. that their

lenghts' sum is less than any predefined positive quantity...

For example, the sum of lengths of [itex]\,\,[a_n,b_n]\,\,,\,\,n=1,2,...k\,\,[/itex] is less that [itex]\,\,\epsilon>0\,\,[/itex] if [itex]\,\,b_n-a_n\leq\frac{\epsilon}{2^n}\,\,[/itex].

BTW, what is that "a" and what is R(a)??

DonAntonio

Yes, you can always choose a finite number of intervals that their lenghts' sum is less than any given positive quantity, but that's not the case here.
Here we are choosing a finite number of intervals, that when we apply α (an increasing function), the sum of the corresponding differences α(vj)-α(uj) is less than any given epsilon. So, it's not like the case you said I think.

R(α) is the set of all Riemann-stieljes integrable functions. All functions like ∫fdα that are integrable. (Rudin assumes α is an increasing function).
 
Arian.D said:
Yes, you can always choose a finite number of intervals that their lenghts' sum is less than any given positive quantity, but that's not the case here.
Here we are choosing a finite number of intervals, that when we apply α (an increasing function), the sum of the corresponding differences α(vj)-α(uj) is less than any given epsilon. So, it's not like the case you said I think.

R(α) is the set of all Riemann-stieljes integrable functions. All functions like ∫fdα that are integrable. (Rudin assumes α is an increasing function).



Oh, I see...but then it is also clear: at every discontinuity point [itex]\,\,x_0\,\,[/itex] of f, where g (this is your function a) is continuous, we have that [tex]\,\,\exists \delta>0\,\,s.t.\,\,|x-x_0|<\delta\Longrightarrow |g(x)-g(x_0)|<\epsilon[/tex] and now you can choose your intervals within [itex]\,\,|x-x_0|<\delta_m\,\,,\,\,\delta_m:=\,\,[/itex] the minimal such number among all that finite amount of them.

DonAntonio
 
Now it makes sense. Thanks.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
5K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K