Would we observe a changing Planck's constant?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the implications and observations related to a potentially changing Planck's constant, including the conditions under which such changes could be detected and the hypothetical existence of other universes with different values of Planck's constant. The scope includes theoretical considerations and speculative scenarios.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question how slowly Planck's constant would need to change for it to be observable, and what size of discrete changes would be necessary for detection.
  • Others argue that these questions cannot be answered without a theoretical model, noting that no such model has been constructed for a changing Planck's constant.
  • One participant suggests that Planck's constant is merely a unit definition and questions the meaning of a "changing" Planck's constant.
  • Another participant proposes using the Schrödinger equation to explore altered solutions based on variations in Planck's constant, raising the possibility of a universe with a different value of h(bar).
  • However, some participants challenge this idea, stating that the Schrödinger equation does not allow for a changing Planck's constant and that it can be expressed in units where it does not appear.
  • There is a mention of the historical context regarding the fixing of the speed of light and the plans to render the uncertainty of Planck's constant negligible, which some participants view as off-topic.
  • One participant expresses a disagreement with the notion that speculation is unwelcome in the forum, asserting that mathematical understanding can provide answers.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the nature of Planck's constant or the implications of its potential variability. Multiple competing views remain regarding the feasibility of discussing hypothetical scenarios and the applicability of existing models.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the absence of a theoretical framework for a changing Planck's constant and the dependence on definitions of units. The discussion also reflects differing opinions on the appropriateness of speculative questions in the forum.

sgphysics
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If Planck's constant is changing, how slowly would it need to change before we could observe that something was going on? And if changes were discrete, how large quanta would it take? (for us to observe the jumps)

And a follow-up question: If there was another universe here, running a different value of h(bar), would we observe it? Tunneling between them possible?
 
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sgphysics said:
If Planck's constant is changing, how slowly would it need to change before we could observe that something was going on? And if changes were discrete, how large quanta would it take? (for us to observe the jumps)

These questions can't be answered without some sort of theoretical model. AFAIK nobody has tried to construct a model in which Planck's constant is changing.

sgphysics said:
If there was another universe here, running a different value of h(bar), would we observe it? Tunneling between them possible?

Same response: we don't have a model to work with, so there is no way to answer the questions.
 
Planck's constant is just a number that is determined only by our definition of the units sec and eV.
What do you mean by changing Planck's constant?
If an alien has the same Planck's constant as we do, he is not an alien.
 
... or she.
 
PeterDonis said:
These questions can't be answered without some sort of theoretical model. AFAIK nobody has tried to construct a model in which Planck's constant is changing.
.

Well, actually the model I had in mind was the Schrödinger equation. For a simple system one could easily explore altered solutions from variations in h(bar). So if a universe existed with a different h(bar), perhaps running the same E and V as in our universe, would that be possible? - presuming that everything is described by the SE.
 
sgphysics said:
the model I had in mind was the Schrödinger equation

That equation doesn't allow Planck's constant to change.

sgphysics said:
For a simple system one could easily explore altered solutions from variations in h(bar)

How? The equation doesn't allow ##\hbar## to vary. ##\hbar## is just a unit conversion factor in Schrödinger's equation; you can just as easily adopt units in which ##\hbar = 1## and it doesn't even appear.
 
sgphysics said:
Well, actually the model I had in mind was the Schrödinger equation. For a simple system one could easily explore altered solutions from variations in h(bar). So if a universe existed with a different h(bar), perhaps running the same E and V as in our universe, would that be possible? - presuming that everything is described by the SE.

PF is not a place to speculate on ”What would happen if...?”. Actually, the speed of light in vacuum was fixed to 299792458 m/s in 1983. In 2018, the plan of BIPM is to sanctify h by rendering its normal experimental uncertainty to 0, just like they did for c in 1983.
 
dextercioby said:
PF is not a place to speculate on ”What would happen if...?”. Actually, the speed of light in vacuum was fixed to 299792458 m/s in 1983. In 2018, the plan of BIPM is to sanctify h by rendering its normal experimental uncertainty to 0, just like they did for c in 1983.
I do not share your view on physics, but I shall respect that any forum may decide their own limits. It's not speculation when something can be answered from understanding of math. The number of decimals obtained for c or h measurement is certainly bright engineering, but off-topic. So also the trivial fact that h-value is unit dependent,
 
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The OP question has been sufficiently addressed. Thread closed.
 

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