Wouldn't god be able to manipulate and break the laws of physics?

In summary, the conversation discussed the idea that since God created the laws of physics, he should be able to manipulate and break them. It was also questioned whether the laws of physics can prove or disprove God's existence. However, these arguments were countered with the idea that just because something creates something else, it does not necessarily have complete control over it. Furthermore, it was suggested that the laws of physics cannot prove or disprove anything, but rather they are simply constraints that we use to understand the world around us. The conversation also touched on the possibility of a god creating a self-contradictory universe and the limitations on a god's ability to choose how to create a universe.
  • #1
time traveller d
12
0
since god created all of existence includeing the very laws of physics that govern our universe then, couldn't god be able to manipulate and break the laws of physics that he created? also, wouldn't that mean that the laws of physics can not prove nor disprove god's existence? sorry if this is the wrong place to post this. this just sounded more like a philosophy question than a physics question.
 
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  • #2
time traveller d said:
since god created all of existence includeing the very laws of physics that govern our universe
That's news to me. Certainly we can't take this statement for granted, but perhaps we can proceed on the provisional assumption that this is the case-- e.g. "assuming the universe was created by some god, what could we say about..." You should give us some idea of what you mean by "god" and explicate any properties this god might have that would be relevant to this discussion.

time traveller d said:
then, couldn't god be able to manipulate and break the laws of physics that he created?
Not necessarily. Your argument seems to rest on the truth of the conditional, "If A creates B, then A can manipulate B in whatever way A wishes." But this conditional is false. For instance, if I create a robot out of a cheesy science fiction movie, it does not follow that I will be able to do whatever I wish with this robot (perhaps I might try to reprogram it, but perhaps it would forcibly prevent me from doing that). Or, if I create a child with a woman, it certainly doesn't follow that we can manipulate that child to be whatever way we wish it to be.

time traveller d said:
also, wouldn't that mean that the laws of physics can not prove nor disprove god's existence?
The laws of physics cannot prove or disprove anything. Perhaps you meant to say that we cannot prove or disprove the existence of a god using only constraints presented to us by the laws of physics?
 
  • #3
I follow this same line of reasoning. If there is an all-powerful being, I tend to believe the laws of physics don't necessarily have to apply to it.
 
  • #4
hypnagogue said:
Perhaps you meant to say that we cannot prove or disprove the existence of a god using only constraints presented to us by the laws of physics?
i was trying to ask is since god created the laws of physics shouldn't he be able to manipulate and breaks the very laws of physics he made? i would think he would be able to. also, since he created the laws of physics and can manipulate and break these law's i would think that the laws of physics can not prove nor disprove his existence since these laws would not apply to him.
 
  • #5
I would say its something like this forum. It was created and run by someone who can delete it if he wants. He can also set the rules, change them if he wants, and break them if he so pleases. The lovely mods :!) :!) :!) are like the actual laws. They never fail! :wink: but can be terminated at any moment :devil:
 
  • #6
time traveller d said:
i was trying to ask is since god created the laws of physics shouldn't he be able to manipulate and breaks the very laws of physics he made? i would think he would be able to. also, since he created the laws of physics and can manipulate and break these law's i would think that the laws of physics can not prove nor disprove his existence since these laws would not apply to him.
All you've done is to restate your original post, without addressing any of the questions and comments that were presented. Saying "I would think X is true" without any deeper elaboration is perhaps a nice way of sharing one's opinion, but it does not make for good philosophical discussion.
 
  • #7
What about the "laws of logic"? would a god be able to make a self-contradictory universe?

The reason I mention this is that there is the possibility that part of the "laws of physics" (and maybe even all of them) turn out to be inescapable consequences of the fact that something exists. Were that the case, the ability of such god to choose how to create a universe would be significantly constrained.
 

1. Can God manipulate the laws of physics?

As a scientist, I cannot definitively answer this question as it falls outside the realm of scientific inquiry. However, according to many religious beliefs, God is seen as the creator and sustainer of the laws of physics, rather than a being who manipulates or breaks them.

2. If God is all-powerful, wouldn't He be able to break the laws of physics?

This question assumes that God's power is limited to physical laws, which may not be the case according to many religious beliefs. Additionally, the concept of "breaking" the laws of physics goes against the very nature of these laws, which are used to describe and explain the physical world as we know it.

3. How can we explain miracles if God cannot break the laws of physics?

Miracles, by definition, are events that cannot be explained by natural or scientific laws. Therefore, they fall outside the realm of physics and cannot be used to argue for or against God's ability to manipulate or break these laws.

4. If God created the laws of physics, why wouldn't He be able to change them?

As a scientist, I cannot speak to God's abilities or intentions. However, it is possible that the laws of physics were created by God to govern the physical world in a consistent and predictable manner, and changing them would go against this purpose.

5. Can God's actions be explained by science or are they beyond our understanding?

This is a philosophical question that does not have a definitive answer. Some may argue that God's actions can be explained scientifically, while others believe that they are beyond our current understanding and may never be fully explained by science.

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