WWII: Was It Worth It? Patrick J. Buchanan's Analysis

[selfAdjoint]

It would be an interesting speculation to find out how the world would look like if Hitler and the Japanese wouldn't have suffered defeat (if the US would have stayed out of the conflict).
(in a many worlds view, somewhere in Hilbert space, this is the case :-)

Two sf novels on this theme:

Philip K. Dick, The Man in the High Castle,
Harry Turtledove, In the House of My Enemy.

 

[Smurf]

That's because he killed all potential witnesses

yup. just like aliens kill/caputure all potential witnesses of their experiments too. And of course the there's the dogs taking over the world who have been masquerading as 'man's best friend' for centuries now.

 

[Art]

yup. just like aliens kill/caputure all potential witnesses of their experiments too. And of course the there's the dogs taking over the world who have been masquerading as 'man's best friend' for centuries now.

Dogs even have their own websites these days. http://www.doggienews.com/lib/supplies/dogsforw.htm

BTW Anyone else check out that link Muadib posted? It's for a White Supremest forum. You'd wonder how sick B@*$#*ds like the people posting on that forum manage to function on a day to day basis.

 

[Smurf]

Dogs even have their own websites these days. http://www.doggienews.com/lib/supplies/dogsforw.htm

BTW Anyone else check out that link Muadib posted? It's for a White Supremest forum. You'd wonder how sick B@*$#*ds like the people posting on that forum manage to function on a day to day basis.

Just checked it out, I actually found one post paticularly interesting though

No one has claimed that for the last 30 years or so. They say 6 mill. jews, most of them gassed. That`s absurd as there were never more than max 3 mill. jews in the german controlled areas (still over 4 mill. jews have gotten reperation for surviving german KZ-camps. You do the math *lol*).

I wonder if there's any truth to that.


btw quetz was right, you would make a good lawyer.

 

[russ_watters]

I wonder if there's any truth to that.

No, there isn't:

In 1933, the Jewish population of Europe was about 9.5 million.

http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10005161

The exact number of people killed by the Nazi regime is still subject to further research. Recently declassified British and Soviet documents have indicated the total may be somewhat higher than previously believed [4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust#endnote_JP). However, the following estimates are considered to be highly reliable...

5.1–6.0 million Jews, including 3.0–3.5 million Polish Jews[5] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust#endnote_howmany)
2.5–3.5 million Gentile Poles
200,000–800,000 Roma & Sinti
200,000–300,000 people with disabilities
10,000–25,000 gay men
2,000 Jehovah's Witnesses

The following groups of people were also killed by the Nazi regime, but there is little evidence that the Nazis planned to systematically target them for genocide as was the case for the groups above.

3.5–6 million other Slavic civilians
2.5–4 million Soviet POWs
1–1.5 million political dissidents

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust#Death_toll

I don't know much about the claim of holocaust reparations, but people are still trying to recover money from Germany. Their numbers range in the thousands, though. AFAIK, Germany never paid reparations to all the survivors, though specific groups have gotten some money.

 

[loseyourname]

Are we forgetting here that the war in Europe was only half the war? Talk about being western centric, guys. The US didn't even enter the war until attacked by Japan, and I'd say a large part of the reason for going to war was to permanently disarm Japan and keep it from building the Pacific Rim empire that it was in the process of building. In that, we were successful. Then again, China and a good deal of Japan's holdings in Indochina eventually became communist dictatorships as well.

However, let us remember that the reason for going to war was not just to liberate occupied countries. It was also to end the military prominence of Axis Powers that had stated intentions of building a virtual world empire. Japan, Italy, and Germany were all successfully disarmed and the plan to build a Japanese empire that covered the Pacific and a German empire that covered the Atlantic was thwarted.

 

[Pengwuino]

Pat Buchanan implied in that article that if it hand't been for England and France declaring war on Hitler, that Hitler would've never tried to expand into Western Europe.

Furthermore, he says we shouldn't have even bothered liberating the German people, because, "After all, the Germans voted Hitler in," which is simply false. Hitler actually ran for president and lost in 2 sucessive rounds of voting. He was able to be appointed to the chancellorship because of his effective uses of propaganda to insence the public and political bullying.

Of course, that's not to say Buchanan doesn't have a totally valid point in saying that WWII merely traded Hitler's tyranny for Stalin's tyranny, which in many cases was just as bad or worse. He had a legitimate case without lying and distorting facts.

I think this is utter BS! Your totally hitting it on the head wasteofo2. In what universe did the idea exist that Hitler was going to leave well enough alone and keep his massive army in their barracks and not invade countries like France?

He says that we lured him in by declaring war on him? What kind of drug induced idea is this? Oh yah, France was just begging for a war! They were itching for their country to be taken over!

I don't think he has a valid point either. This is 100% 20-20 hindsight opinion. This is like saying "Was chernobyl worth it? Shouldn't we be calling the man who designed the plant a murderer?". Its completely after the fact. No one could have known what was going to happen to those countries and no one knew close to a hundred million people were going to die and that the Soviet Union would take over those countries and do what they did to them.

Im amazed why he wrote this in the way he did.

 

[Smurf]

Yeah, I'm going to have to agree with Pegwuino on this one. The guy makes lots of assumptions and ignores so much evidence to the contrary.

 

[The Smoking Man]

Actually, Buchanan simply believes in the concept of national sovereignty. He does not believe Americans have the right to invade another country just because we don't like their political system, anymore more than other countries' right to invade America because they dislike our system.

Then you might be interested in a little read of the Tripartite Pact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripartite_Pact

http://wikisource.org/wiki/Tripartite_Pact][/PLAIN]

The Governments of Japan, Germany, and Italy consider it the prerequisite of a lasting peace that every nation in the world shall receive the space to which it is entitled. They have, therefore, decided to stand by and cooperate with one another in their efforts in the regions of Europe and Greater East Asia respectively. In doing this it is their prime purpose to establish and maintain a new order of things, calculated to promote the mutual prosperity and welfare of the peoples concerned.
It is, furthermore, the desire of the three Governments to extend cooperation to nations in other spheres of the world that are inclined to direct their efforts along lines similar to their own for the purpose of realizing their ultimate object, world peace.
Accordingly, the Governments of Japan, Germany and Italy have agreed as follows:

ARTICLE 1. Japan recognizes and respects the leadership of Germany and Italy in the establishment of a new order in Europe.
ARTICLE 2. Germany and Italy recognize and respect the leadership of Japan in the establishment of a new order in Greater East Asia.
ARTICLE 3. Japan, Germany, and Italy agree to cooperate in their efforts on aforesaid lines. They further untertake to assist one another with all political, economic and military means if one of the Contracting Powers is attacked by a Power at present not involved in the European War or in the Japanese-Chinese conflict.
ARTICLE 4. With a view to implementing the present pact, joint technical commissions, to be appointed by the respective Governments of Japan, Germany and Italy, will meet without delay.
ARTICLE 5. Japan, Germany and Italy affirm that the above agreement affects in no way the political status existing at present between each of the three Contracting Powers and Soviet Russia.
ARTICLE 6. The present pact shall become valid immediately upon signature and shall remain in force ten years from the date on which it becomes effective.
In due time, before the expiration of said term, the High Contracting Parties shall, at the request of anyone of them, enter into negotiations for its renewal.

By your description, it sounds like Germany, Italy and Japan stood for everything Pat does.

 

[The Smoking Man]

He says that we lured him in by declaring war on him? What kind of drug induced idea is this? Oh yah, France was just begging for a war! They were itching for their country to be taken over!

Those women were wearing short skirts and giving those 'come hither looks'! :!)