X and Y coordinates of an oscillating object on a spring.

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the motion of an oscillating object on a spring, specifically analyzing the x and y coordinates represented by parametric equations. Participants are exploring the implications of different amplitude and phase constants on the trajectory of the mass, particularly in relation to circular and elliptical motion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are questioning the physical interpretation of the mass's motion when specific conditions (ϕ1 = ϕ2 = 0 and A = B) are applied. There is a discussion about proving the claim that this leads to circular motion and whether initial conditions affect the trajectory. Some participants suggest examining the mathematical expressions for x and y coordinates to understand the motion better.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing insights and questioning assumptions. Some have offered mathematical reasoning to support their views, while others express skepticism about the claims made in the solution manual. There is no explicit consensus, but various interpretations and lines of reasoning are being explored.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the initial conditions, such as the state of the spring at time t = 0, are critical to understanding the motion. There is an acknowledgment that the spring may have been stretched in the y-direction due to initial velocities, despite initial conditions suggesting otherwise.

phantomvommand
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Homework Statement
Consider a mass m on a table attached to a spring at the origin with zero relaxed
length, which exerts the force
F = −kr
on the mass. We will find the general solution for r(t) = (x(t), y(t)) in two different ways.
(a) Directly write down the answer, using the fact that the x and y coordinates are independent.
(b) Sketch a representative sample of solutions. What kind of curve does the trajectory follow?
Relevant Equations
##m\ddot x = kx## solution is ##x(t) = A\cos(\omega t + \phi)##
##r^2 = x^2 + y^2##
I get that:
##x(t) = A\cos(\omega t + \phi)##
##y(t) = A\sin(\omega t + \phi)## (from the above relevant equations). This agrees with the solution for part (a).

However, the solution manual claims in part (b) that:
In the case where ϕ1 = ϕ2 = 0 and A = B, the mass moves in a circle centered at the origin.More generally, when the angles ϕi are unequal, the mass can move in an ellipse with centerat the origin.

Is there any way to prove this, or explain this physically? I am especially dubious of the claim that when ϕ1 = ϕ2 = 0 and A = B, it is a circle, because this situation, physically, at time t = 0, should represent a simple 1D motion along the x-axis, since the spring was never stretched in the y-direction to begin with!
 
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phantomvommand said:
##x(t) = A\cos(\omega t + \phi)##
##y(t) = A\sin(\omega t + \phi)## (from the above relevant equations).
except that, as indicated later, the amplitude and phase constants can be different. Only the frequency must be the same.
phantomvommand said:
However, the solution manual claims in part (b) that:
In the case where ϕ1 = ϕ2 = 0 and A = B, the mass moves in a circle centered at the origin.
Easily proved. Write down the expression for ##x^2+y^2##.
Slight variation for the ellipse case.
phantomvommand said:
since the spring was never stretched in the y-direction to begin with!
You don’t know that, but it’s not just a question of initial displacement. In the general case, it may have been given some initial velocity.
 
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phantomvommand said:
Is there any way to prove this, or explain this physically?
In first instance this is math. You have two seond order differential equations, so four initial conditions.
For example ##x, \dot x, y, \dot y## at ##t=0##.
Or ##A, \phi_1, B, \phi_2## at ##t=0##.
Setting
phantomvommand said:
ϕ1 = ϕ2 = 0 and A = B
leaves only one degree of freedom. And sure enough the "choice"
##x = A \cos(\omega _t),\ \ y=\sin(\omega t)## describes circular motion,
with very specific initial conditions ##x=A, \dot x=0, y=0, \dot y=\omega A## at ##t=0##

Ah, hello @haruspex !

##\ ##
 
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phantomvommand said:
physically, at time t = 0, should represent a simple 1D motion along the x-axis, since the spring was never stretched in the y-direction to begin with!
So: no! Spring not stretched in the ##y## direction at ##t=0## doesn't mean never stretched. ##\dot y \ne 0## at t=0 means it does gets stretched in the ##y## direction.

##\ ##
 
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