Chemical Exposure!

[Stadtjunky]

Hi,

Thanks for taking the time to read this! I'm student chemist (only 21), and last week I got exposed to alot of methyl iodide when I spilt some dissolved in DCM onto my hand, although I was wearing nitrile gloves I think the chemical passed straight through, I had some skin irritation the next day. Now, after reading up so much about MeI, I'm paranoid that I'll get cancer. Am I being reasonable in worrying about getting cancer because of this exposure?

I seen a doctor, he says it's extremely unlikely, but isn't it also extremely unlikely that someone would have this sort of accident?

Many, many thanks,

John

[chemisttree]

You shouldn't be using nitrile with DCM. Nitrile is not an effective barrier for it.

Lucky for you that MeI might not be that bad an actor. It is only classified A2 (suspected human carcinogen) by ACGIH and is not classified a human carcinogen by IARC. Still, it doesn't hurt to be more careful.

Your lab needs to get a handle on PPO if you intend to work with DCM. Use these (http://www.labsafety.com/Ansell-PVA-Gloves_24530219/) for DCM.

[gabriels-horn]

Hi,

Thanks for taking the time to read this! I'm student chemist (only 21), and last week I got exposed to alot of methyl iodide when I spilt some dissolved in DCM onto my hand, although I was wearing nitrile gloves I think the chemical passed straight through, I had some skin irritation the next day. Now, after reading up so much about MeI, I'm paranoid that I'll get cancer. Am I being reasonable in worrying about getting cancer because of this exposure?

I seen a doctor, he says it's extremely unlikely, but isn't it also extremely unlikely that someone would have this sort of accident?

Many, many thanks,

John

Methyl iodide is a common reagent. Any kind of halide causes irritation/inflamation. Now if were hydrofluoric acid that touched you I would be drinking milk like theres no tommorow.

[Stadtjunky]

Methyl iodide is a common reagent. Any kind of halide causes irritation/inflamation. Now if were hydrofluoric acid that touched you I would be drinking milk like theres no tommorow.

Have you ever been exposed to this, or know anyone that has and hasn't got cancer? I mean, like, dermal exposure?

Should the nitrile gloves stop DCM getting through for like 10 seconds perhaps?

[gabriels-horn]

Have you ever been exposed to this, or know anyone that has and hasn't got cancer? I mean, like, dermal exposure?

Should the nitrile gloves stop DCM getting through for like 10 seconds perhaps?

How much are we talking about here exactly? A 1 L bottle, 100 mL?

[Stadtjunky]

How much are we talking about here exactly? A 1 L bottle, 100 mL?

I would estimate about 10-15 mls of this mixture fell onto my gloves (which stayed on my hands for like 5-6 seconds). The mixture had about 10% pure MeI, the rest was DCM.

[gabriels-horn]

I would estimate about 10-15 mls of this mixture fell onto my gloves (which stayed on my hands for like 5-6 seconds). The mixture had about 10% pure MeI, the rest was DCM.

Relax then. Don't get too worried about 1 mL of methyl iodide. You're bound to have slip ups every once and a while. Just be cautious when using hazardous stuff, read the MSDS before you work with something (useful info in there) and avoid hydrofluoric acid.

[Stadtjunky]

Relax then.

It obviously got through my skin if my skin was red and irritated :(

But you think the risk is small?

[Borek]

Your chances of getting hit by some car today when you will be going home are probably still higher then dying of cancer because of that spill.

Relax and concentrate, don't let that car kill you just because you are preoccupied with fear - you will increase number of methyl iodide victims.

[Stadtjunky]

Your chances of getting hit by some car today when you will be going home are probably still higher then dying of cancer because of that spill.

Relax and concentrate, don't let that car kill you just because you are preoccupied with fear - you will increase number of methyl iodide victims.

But are you aware of the toxicity of this deadly compound? :(

[Borek]

As you were told - it is not as deadly as you seem to be thinking. You already did what you should - you have visited your doctor. Good decision. Now there are three other things to do. First one - accept what you have been told by everyone - you are on the safe side. Second one - make resolution to be less clumsy in the lab (not that it will work, how many times did I tell that to myself...). Third one - open a beer and watch some movie that puts you in a good mood. Stop worrying, it makes you look ugly and live shorter.

[Stadtjunky]

As you were told - it is not as deadly as you seem to be thinking. You already did what you should - you have visited your doctor. Good decision. Now there are three other things to do. First one - accept what you have been told by everyone - you are on the safe side. Second one - make resolution to be less clumsy in the lab (not that it will work, how many times did I tell that to myself...). Third one - open a beer and watch some movie that puts you in a good mood. Stop worrying, it makes you look ugly and live shorter.

Thanks Borek, I really appreciate your response. As a chemist surely it's not un-normal to have a few sleepless nights worrying about the toxicity of various chemicals, espicially if you're young and inexperienced?

[Borek]

Dangers that most of the chemists deal with are overrated. Sure, there are substances that should be treated with extreme caution, but accidental & temporary exposition to small amounts of most of the chemicals used in labs is not dangerous. It doesn't mean we shouldn't pay attention or ignore risks, but loosing a sleep is overreacting.

I don't blame you. We live in a world where fear mongering and media hype make most people chemophobic.

[lisab]

It should be standard practice to consult an MSDS to educate yourself of the hazards *before* you work with a chemical. A good MSDS will mention what PPE you need.

Since MSDSs go by different names in different countries, here's the wiki -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Material_safety_data_sheet

[Stadtjunky]

Dangers that most of the chemists deal with are overrated. Sure, there are substances that should be treated with extreme caution, but accidental & temporary exposition to small amounts of most of the chemicals used in labs is not dangerous. It doesn't mean we shouldn't pay attention or ignore risks, but loosing a sleep is overreacting.

I don't blame you. We live in a world where fear mongering and media hype make most people chemophobic.

I guess so. Have you had any chemical exposures in the past that worried you?

[Stadtjunky]

It should be standard practice to consult an MSDS to educate yourself of the hazards *before* you work with a chemical. A good MSDS will mention what PPE you need.

Since MSDSs go by different names in different countries, here's the wiki -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Material_safety_data_sheet

Of course I always do this. But it was spilled on my hand through no fault of my own.

[Borek]

I guess so. Have you had any chemical exposures in the past that worried you?

Worried? No. Exposure? On many occasions. Acids, bases, solvents, reagents. Including story described here (http://www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?topic=38151.0). Part of the mixture reaction landed on my face. It tasted like Lugol's solution.

Now, it was almost 30 years ago and I have no doubts our labs were much less safe than they are today. We were in lab coats and at some more dangerous moments in glasses, but we were pipetting everything by mouth and gloves were unheard off. Still, during about ten years I have spent at the University the most serious accident I remember was when a friend of mine burnt (burnt? scalded? not sure about the correct word) himself with a phosphoric acid. That left nasty scar on his arm. I have not heard about anyone of my fellow students getting ill and dying because of the exposure to chemicals, so obviously even at this relatively low level safety regime chemistry wasn't that dangerous.

[Stadtjunky]

Worried? No. Exposure? On many occasions. Acids, bases, solvents, reagents. Including story described here (http://www.chemicalforums.com/index.php?topic=38151.0). Part of the mixture reaction landed on my face. It tasted like Lugol's solution.

Now, it was almost 30 years ago and I have no doubts our labs were much less safe than they are today. We were in lab coats and at some more dangerous moments in glasses, but we were pipetting everything by mouth and gloves were unheard off. Still, during about ten years I have spent at the University the most serious accident I remember was when a friend of mine burnt (burnt? scalded? not sure about the correct word) himself with a phosphoric acid. That left nasty scar on his arm. I have not heard about anyone of my fellow students getting ill and dying because of the exposure to chemicals, so obviously even at this relatively low level safety regime chemistry wasn't that dangerous.

Ouch. So I take it you use gloves and googles today? Did you have fumehoods back then? :S

Speaking on gloves, do you use nitrile gloves?

[Borek]

We had fume hoods and reaction was done in one. I though I have the dangerous part behind, so I opened the hood. I was wrong.

I no longer work as a chemist. Only gloves I use are to keep my hands warm in winter. Without gloves I could serve a large lab - I have ten cold fingers.

[chemisttree]

...Without gloves I could serve a large lab - I have ten cold fingers.

:rimshot: :rofl:

Don't use nitrile with DCM. It just doesn't work.

[Stadtjunky]

:rimshot: :rofl:

Don't use nitrile with DCM. It just doesn't work.

Those .11 mm nitrile gloves, they should have a breakthrough time greater than 10 seconds for DCM, right?

[chemisttree]

Those .11 mm nitrile gloves, they should have a breakthrough time greater than 10 seconds for DCM, right?

It depends. Did you remove them within 10 seconds after your spill?

Don't use Nitrile with DCM.
It (https://www.vwrsp.com/programs/safety/images/disposable_gloves.pdf) just (http://www.kcprofessional.com/us/download/Product%20Literature/K2365_09_01_SN_Chem_Guide_v10.pdf) doesn't (http://www.ehs.ufl.edu/Lab/CHP/North.pdf) work. (http://www.saftgard.com/anonymous/SolvaGard1.pdf)

[Stadtjunky]

It depends. Did you remove them within 10 seconds after your spill?

Don't use Nitrile with DCM.
It (https://www.vwrsp.com/programs/safety/images/disposable_gloves.pdf) just (http://www.kcprofessional.com/us/download/Product%20Literature/K2365_09_01_SN_Chem_Guide_v10.pdf) doesn't (http://www.ehs.ufl.edu/Lab/CHP/North.pdf) work. (http://www.saftgard.com/anonymous/SolvaGard1.pdf)


Well yeah probably within 6 seconds or so.

[chemisttree]

Ok then. You posted that it went through your gloves and resulted in a mild irritation?

nuff said.

[Geigerclick]

Any long term effects cannot be accurately predicted or mitigated. In the short term you are well, and have learned an important lesson.

[minerva]

Relax then. Don't get too worried about 1 mL of methyl iodide. You're bound to have slip ups every once and a while. Just be cautious when using hazardous stuff, read the MSDS before you work with something (useful info in there) and avoid hydrofluoric acid.

Useful information in MSDS? They're probably the most useless thing in any lab.

[alxm]

Useful information in MSDS? They're probably the most useless thing in any lab.

That's a pretty cavalier attitude on safety. What's so useless about them?

I would consider it pretty useful to know the relative toxicity of a substance I'm about to handle, and whether it can be absorbed through the skin, etc.

[Geigerclick]

That's a pretty cavalier attitude on safety. What's so useless about them?

I would consider it pretty useful to know the relative toxicity of a substance I'm about to handle, and whether it can be absorbed through the skin, etc.

...And nitrile... heh

[gabriels-horn]

Useful information in MSDS? They're probably the most useless thing in any lab.

You're statement is almost too idiotic to warrant a response; almost. However, here is just one example from the MSDS of THF, "Distillation or evaporation can concentrate peroxides (if present) to create an explosion hazard." Pretty useless information I would say. Makes you think twice while you have that round-bottom flask on the rotovapor.

It's better to overcome your ignorance and live another day.

[Geigerclick]

You're statement is almost too idiotic to warrant a response; almost. However, here is just one example from the MSDS of THF, "Distillation or evaporation can concentrate peroxides (if present) to create an explosion hazard." Pretty useless information I would say. Makes you think twice while you have that round-bottom flask on the rotovapor.

It's better to overcome your ignorance and live another day.

Well said, and it's cheaper and less painful than a debridement and a dozen skin grafts!

[minerva]

MSDSs are full of cover-your-*** nonsense written by lawyers.

If you try and teach young chemists that every single chemical is highly dangerous, they will come to understand that you're exaggerating and they won't learn where *real* dangers exist.

Understanding, for example, the possible formation of organic peroxides in THF (and many other organic solvents) is very important. Understanding, for example, that DCM will go straight through nitrile gloves is very important.

Replacing real education and real chemistry literacy and real understanding of the realistic hazards of different chemicals with the overzealous language of MSDSs, implying that every chemical there is is scary, insidious and lethal is a mistake.

[Geigerclick]

MSDSs are full of cover-your-*** nonsense written by lawyers.

If you try and teach young chemists that every single chemical is highly dangerous, they will come to understand that you're exaggerating and they won't learn where *real* dangers exist.

Understanding, for example, the possible formation of organic peroxides in THF (and many other organic solvents) is very important. Understanding, for example, that DCM will go straight through nitrile gloves is very important.

Replacing real education and real chemistry literacy and real understanding of the realistic hazards of different chemicals with the overzealous language of MSDSs, implying that every chemical there is is scary, insidious and lethal is a mistake.

Nice try, but in addition to the legalese are the warnings you really DO need to know. I don't think anyone has suggested "Chemistry-By-The-Labels", so your education argument is a bombastic one, and a straw man. Read the label is a good idea, and no one is saying it's the ONLY thing you should do.

[alxm]

If you try and teach young chemists that every single chemical is highly dangerous, they will come to understand that you're exaggerating and they won't learn where *real* dangers exist.

Funny, because that's exactly how I learned these things.
By reading the relevant MSDSes for every chemical I was about to handle before every lab. Yes at first glance 'everything' would seem dangerous (and everything is, to an extent). But if you read more than one of them you quickly get a good understanding of relative dangers. An LD50 of 1000 mg/kg is quite safe, 1 mg/kg is not.

I think you're underestimating the ability of students to interpret and evaluate the data, and that the attitude you're espousing ("Don't bother reading the MSDS, it just says everything is bad!"), is a lot more dangerous than reading an MSDS ever would be.

[Geigerclick]

Funny, because that's exactly how I learned these things.
By reading the relevant MSDSes for every chemical I was about to handle before every lab. Yes at first glance 'everything' would seem dangerous (and everything is, to an extent). But if you read more than one of them you quickly get a good understanding of relative dangers. An LD50 of 1000 mg/kg is quite safe, 1 mg/kg is not.

I think you're underestimating the ability of students to interpret and evaluate the data, and that the attitude you're espousing ("Don't bother reading the MSDS, it just says everything is bad!"), is a lot more dangerous than reading an MSDS ever would be.

This is the sensible approach in my view. If you can't figure out labels, maybe you shouldn't be in chemistry? :biggrin:

[Stadtjunky]

To be honest, I have to agree with previous comments. When you start out in chemistry it's not clear what's dangerous and what's not. And it doesn't help that you're not medically trained, so when you see "may cause cancer" or "may cause death" or whatever, it's difficult to interpret these warnings initially in any other way apart from "be extremely extremely careful" such that you're almost afraid to touch the bottle.

Look at the MSDS for DCM for example, it makes it sound like a chemical warfare agent...hence why I was frightend of alkyating agents like MeI...

[Stadtjunky]

Funny, because that's exactly how I learned these things.
By reading the relevant MSDSes for every chemical I was about to handle before every lab. Yes at first glance 'everything' would seem dangerous (and everything is, to an extent). But if you read more than one of them you quickly get a good understanding of relative dangers. An LD50 of 1000 mg/kg is quite safe, 1 mg/kg is not.

I think you're underestimating the ability of students to interpret and evaluate the data, and that the attitude you're espousing ("Don't bother reading the MSDS, it just says everything is bad!"), is a lot more dangerous than reading an MSDS ever would be.

Agreed, but most young student chemists aren't taught about LD50 values, at least I wasn't. You have to learn for yourself.