Metrics which generate topologies

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the study of metric functions that generate specific topologies, particularly focusing on the set of all metric functions that can generate a given topology, such as the Euclidean topology. Participants explore the properties of these metrics, their algebraic structures, and the implications of mappings on metrics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that a topological space is termed 'metrizable' if a metric function exists that generates the same topology.
  • There is interest in whether the set of all metric functions that generate a specific topology has additional algebraic structure, such as closure under addition.
  • Participants question the cardinality of the set of metrics equivalent to the Euclidean metric and whether all such metrics can be expressed through continuous mappings.
  • One participant raises the idea of whether every metric equivalent to the Euclidean metric can be represented as a function derived from a continuous mapping of the space onto itself.
  • Concerns are expressed regarding the closure properties of the set of metrics, particularly that it is not closed under subtraction, which limits the applicability of certain algebraic structures.
  • Some participants express interest in further exploring these questions and their implications in the context of topology and metric spaces.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the concept of metrizability and the existence of metrics that generate topologies. However, there is no consensus on the algebraic properties of the set of these metrics, and multiple competing views remain regarding their structure and relationships.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the discussion, particularly regarding the closure properties of the set of metrics and the implications of mappings on these metrics. The exploration of category theory as a potential framework is also noted, but its applicability remains uncertain.

Lucas SV
Messages
140
Reaction score
50
Given a topological space ##(\chi, \tau)##, do mathematicians study the set of all metric functions ##d: \chi\times\chi \rightarrow [0,\infty)## that generate the topology ##\tau##? Maybe they would endow this set with additional structure too. Are there resources on this?

Thanks
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Yes they do. We say the topological space is 'metrizable' if there exists a function of the type you describe that has the properties of a metric and the metric topology that it generates is the same as ##\tau##. Studying metrizability is a key part of studying topology. Metrics provide additional structure because they provide a notion of distance, which does not exist in a bare topological space.

A commonly-used resource on this is Munkres' popular textbook 'Topology, a first course' in which a significant part of the second chapter is devoted to metrizability.
 
andrewkirk said:
Yes they do. We say the topological space is 'metrizable' if there exists a function of the type you describe that has the properties of a metric and the metric topology that it generates is the same as ##\tau##. Studying metrizability is a key part of studying topology. Metrics provide additional structure because they provide a notion of distance, which does not exist in a bare topological space.

A commonly-used resource on this is Munkres' popular textbook 'Topology, a first course' in which a significant part of the second chapter is devoted to metrizability.

Yes, I've seen the metrizability concept before. But my question is not so much on the existence of a metric function which generates the topology, but given you already know it exists, for instance the Euclidean topology, is there some structure to the set of all such metric functions. For example, it seems this set is closed under addition. One can also ask about the cardinality of such set. Since metrizability focuses on existence, I'm not sure it will help.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Stephen Tashi
Lucas SV said:
but given you already know it exists, for instance the Euclidean topology, is there some structure to the set of all such metric functions.

- "such metric functions" meaning the class of all metric function that are equivalent to the Euclidean metric function.

Is there is a name for an algebraic structure of things that are closed under addition and multiplication by positive scalars, but not under subtraction? (I don't know.)

Suppose ##T: \mathbb{R}^n \rightarrow \mathbb{R}^n## is a 1-1 continuous (in the Euclidean topology) mapping of ##\mathbb{R}^n## onto itself. And let ##d(x,y )## be the Euclidean metric. Can we show ##m(x,y) = d(T(x),T(y))## is a metric that is topologically equivalent to the Euclidean metric?

If that idea holds up then we can ask if the converse holds - if every metric ##m(x,y)## that is topologically equivalent to the Euclidean metric on ##\mathbb{R}^n## can be realized as ##d(T(x),T(y))## for some ##T(x,y)##.

Things will be more interesting if the converse is false. If the converse is true then it looks like the study of "all metrics equivalent to the Euclidean metric" just amounts to the study of all 1-1 continuous mappings of ##\mathbb{R}^n## onto itself.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: FactChecker and Lucas SV
Stephen Tashi said:
"such metric functions" meaning the class of all metric function that are equivalent to the Euclidean metric function.
Why a class though? Since such metrics are written as ##d: \mathbb{R}\times\mathbb{R} \rightarrow [0,\infty)##, which can be thought as a subset of ##\mathbb{R} \times \mathbb{R} \times \mathbb{R}##, so the set of all metrics equivalent to the Euclidean metric would be well defined in set theory as a subset of ##\mathcal{P}(\mathbb{R} \times \mathbb{R} \times \mathbb{R})##.

Stephen Tashi said:
Suppose T:Rn→RnT:Rn→RnT: \mathbb{R}^n \rightarrow \mathbb{R}^n is a 1-1 continuous (in the Euclidean topology) mapping of RnRn\mathbb{R}^n onto itself. And let d(x,y)d(x,y)d(x,y ) be the Euclidean metric. Can we show m(x,y)=d(T(x),T(y))m(x,y)=d(T(x),T(y))m(x,y) = d(T(x),T(y)) is a metric that is topologically equivalent to the Euclidean metric?

If that idea holds up then we can ask if the converse holds - if every metric m(x,y)m(x,y)m(x,y) that is topologically equivalent to the Euclidean metric on RnRn\mathbb{R}^n can be realized as d(T(x),T(y))d(T(x),T(y))d(T(x),T(y)) for some T(x,y)T(x,y)T(x,y).

These are very interesting questions. I will definitely be looking at them in more detail.
 
Lucas SV said:
Why a class though? Since such metrics are written as ##d: \mathbb{R}\times\mathbb{R} \rightarrow [0,\infty)##, which can be thought as a subset of ##\mathbb{R} \times \mathbb{R} \times \mathbb{R}##, so the set of all metrics equivalent to the Euclidean metric would be well defined in set theory as a subset of ##\mathcal{P}(\mathbb{R} \times \mathbb{R} \times \mathbb{R})##.
These are very interesting questions. I will definitely be looking at them in more detail.
Pay special attention to @Stephen Tashi 's point that the set is not closed under subtraction. That doesn't leave much in abstract algebra that can apply. Maybe category theory has some use here, but I don't know enough about that.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
2K