I thought it was only Amazon that sold unsafe junk

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the safety concerns regarding a specific under cabinet LED light and its power cord design, particularly focusing on the implications of using a non-standard plug that could potentially lead to dangerous situations. Participants explore the certification standards applicable to such products and the responsibilities of manufacturers in ensuring safety.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express concern that the power cord design could allow for the use of a double male cord, which is considered unsafe.
  • There is a discussion about whether the product is CE certified, with one participant noting that this certification only applies in the EU.
  • Participants question the presence of safety certification markings, such as UL, on the product.
  • One participant highlights that any wiring setup can become dangerous if modified improperly, raising concerns about the design's safety features.
  • Another participant points out that the design exposes live conductors if the retaining bracket is not used, questioning the manufacturer's safety measures.
  • There is speculation about whether the manufacturer's instructions provide a legal safeguard against liability in case of accidents due to improper assembly.
  • Concerns are raised regarding the definition of "qualified" in the context of installation, suggesting it complicates accountability for safety issues.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the design presents safety issues, particularly regarding the potential for exposed live conductors. However, there is no consensus on the adequacy of the manufacturer's safety measures or the implications of the instructions provided.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the potential for confusion regarding safety certifications and the implications of improper assembly, which could lead to dangerous situations. The discussion reflects uncertainty about the manufacturer's responsibilities and the effectiveness of existing safety standards.

Averagesupernova
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TL;DR
Unsafe cord on an under cabinet light.
I grabbed an under cabinet LED light today at a big box store. Nothing special. 18 inches in length and made to plug several lights together. Here is a pic of the power cord:

KIMG6521.webp

The drawing on the box led me to believe that it would accept a standard IEC cord which surprised me. But it's a variation of it. I didn't try it, but I would assume you could plug a standard IEC cord into this and have a double male cord AKA suicide cord. And to boot, it's likely going to reverse the hot and neutral doing this. Admittedly this cord is no safer than a suicide cord. This is a very well known popular brand in home lighting.
 
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I was about to say that I thought these things were supposed to be CE certified, but I see that only applies to the EU.
 
Averagesupernova said:
Admittedly this cord is no safer than a suicide cord.
Wow, that's not good. Are there any certification markings on the box or the cord? Anything like UL or similar?
 
I am not informed enough to understand the implications of the opening post.

It's male plug in a sheath so that it (optimally) only meshes with its female counterpart. I'm not sure if it's 12V or 120V.

Surely, any wiring setup can be rendered dangerous if you perform aftermarket shenanigans upon it.

OK, I guess what I'm seeing is that the shown plug is the live end, i .e. if you stuck your finger in there you'd get zapped? Which is why, generally, live ends are normally female?

But I'll take y'all's word for it that this is a gap in safe design.
 
DaveC426913 said:
OK, I guess what I'm seeing is that the shown plug is the live end, i .e. if you stuck your finger in there you'd get zapped? Which is why, generally, live ends are normally female?
Yes, we call them "suicide cords" or "widowmakers" because they don't obey safe practices of keeping AC Mains live wire connections hidden so they can't be touched. We used to have such cords or similar (with alligator clips for example) in our HW Lab test setups. But only very experienced engineers and technicians were allowed to use them, and we kept them locked up in drawers and cabinets when not in use so no unsuspecting person would try to use them for something.
 
 
Here is the manufacturers attempt to make it safer:

KIMG6526.webp
There is nothing to prevent it from working if the retaining bracket is left off. It will simply come unplugged if pulled on and expose live conductors.
 
Averagesupernova said:
Here is the manufacturers attempt to make it safer:

View attachment 368116
There is nothing to prevent it from working if the retaining bracket is left off. It will simply come unplugged if pulled on and expose live conductors.
Are there manufacturer’s instructions telling you to assemble it like that?

If so, the live conductors are only accessible with a tool, when the fitting is assembled to spec. That may be how they got it through certification. Of course, I agree they shouldn’t be supplying suicide plugs!

It makes me think of the ‘grandfather rights’ given to things that probably wouldn’t be approved today - toasters and bayonet light fittings with exposed live conductors, for example.
 
Guineafowl said:
Are there manufacturer’s instructions telling you to assemble it like that?
The instructions tell to assemble using the bracket. But as I said, there is a high probability of many of those brackets getting left off.
 
  • #10
Averagesupernova said:
The instructions tell to assemble using the bracket. But as I said, there is a high probability of many of those brackets getting left off.
Yes, I bet. But would that give them a get-out clause in the event of an accident, ie not assembled to manufacturer’s specs? Or does the manual have a weasel clause, such as ‘only to be installed by a competent/suitably qualified person?’ Ie, if you got a shock, you weren’t competent?
 
  • #11
Guineafowl said:
Yes, I bet. But would that give them a get-out clause in the event of an accident, ie not assembled to manufacturer’s specs? Or does the manual have a weasel clause, such as ‘only to be installed by a competent/suitably qualified person?’ Ie, if you got a shock, you weren’t competent?
It's difficult to be "only installed by qualified" when they send a power cord. Not only that, defining the word "qualified" opens a whole new can of worms. They send mounting screws to attach to the cabinet. They also send a small connector to attach flexible conduit in the event it is to be permanently wired.
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Big box hardware stores sell everything a person needs to wire a complete house.