Self-study & prep for theoretical physics PhD without a physics major

[EruedraithH]

Hello everyone!

I was hoping for some academic advice on future steps.

About a year ago, after taking statics (for engineering), it dawned on me that I wanted to pursue physics – I found that the questions I was interested in (why and how things are) were quite different than those asked in engineering; however, the college I am going to does not have a physics degree, and I am graduating in Spring 28 and have a current GPA of 3.97 (got a B in CS networking).. I will graduate with majors in general engineering and mathematics with minors in chemistry and computer science. After discussing the topic with some of the professors, I decided transferring to another university wouldn’t necessarily be better than finishing here (though I would appreciate your input here).

Thankfully, my academic advisor has been very flexible on what I take, encouraging pursuit of topics of interest. In this I have acquired a solid foundation in math (calculus, real analysis, point set topology, abstract algebra, etc.), core engineering, computer science, and chemistry through quantitative chemical analysis. In addition, I am doing a three semester (potentially more) undergraduate chemistry research program, where I am exploring an intersection of electricity and 1H-NMR spectroscopy.

While these have been amazing, and I’ve learned a lot from my professors (who are excellent), there is a gaping hole regarding physics. Namely, classical mechanics (though there is a dynamics course in engineering, but not quite the same), statistical mechanics, electromagnetism, and quantum mechanics (beyond introductory). I have studied on my own, though certainly not a substantial amount, on these topics and have solidified my decision to study physics.

Thus, I would go into theoretical or mathematical physics through graduate school. Though I have a lot to learn, I have greatly enjoyed my math and chemistry, especially more abstract concepts, and find the idea of asking why and how the universe works intriguing. At this point I have spent many hours in the laboratory working, and although it is very interesting and valuable, my intrigue aligns with what I have seen of the theoretical side. There is the option of chemical physics, but that's not where my interest lies (having taken chemistry).

Hopefully that gives you an idea of where I’m coming from. I would love to hear your thoughts on how to proceed with both self-study (or even online courses) to cover what I am lacking and looking for graduate programs. (1) should I transfer or stay? (2) What books that would be best (and what order)? (3) Any suggestions for how to best learn the materials? (4) how realistic is it to be admitted to theory programs with my background, and how might I show I'm prepared? (5) Thoughts on my reasoning for theoretical physics? (6) Do you have suggestions for specializations to think about pursuing? (7) Any university suggestions (I plan on reaching out by mid-November to ask about programs and hopefully visiting in the spring)?

Thank you so much for your time!

 

[CrysPhys]

If you were interested in chemical physics, particularly experimental chemical physics, there would be a good path for you. But since you want to pursue theoretical physics in a field outside of chemical physics, I would recommend that you transfer to a university that has a physics major.

 

[Choppy]

Self study doesn't count for much in graduate school applications.
If you're quite sure you want to go to graduate school for physics, your best bet is to get an undergraduate degree in physics.

 

[EruedraithH]

If you were interested in chemical physics, particularly experimental chemical physics, there would be a good path for you. But since you want to pursue theoretical physics in a field outside of chemical physics, I would recommend that you transfer to a university that has a physics major.

Thank you for the reply!

Okay thanks for the advice. Are there any qualities I should look for in a program for this path, or just a good program and take upper level math and physics?
Also, as I would at least finish my math major and chem minor (which could be complete by this coming spring), should I look at taking some online classes to get a small head start (I guess I would have to look at what the university allowed to transfer)?

Thank you.

 

[EruedraithH]

Self study doesn't count for much in graduate school applications.
If you're quite sure you want to go to graduate school for physics, your best bet is to get an undergraduate degree in physics.

Thank you for replying!

I see.
It does make sense to get a physics degree, especially for the discipline I am looking at. Do you think I would be able to get a physics degree online (one that is competitive) or would transferring be better.
Also, what if I had the core physics classes on my transcript without the degree?

Thank you.

 

[CrysPhys]

Thank you for the reply!

Okay thanks for the advice. Are there any qualities I should look for in a program for this path, or just a good program and take upper level math and physics?
Also, as I would at least finish my math major and chem minor (which could be complete by this coming spring), should I look at taking some online classes to get a small head start (I guess I would have to look at what the university allowed to transfer)?

Thank you.

(1) You will have completed enough math at your current school that you could continue onto advanced math at your new school right away. But if I understand you correctly, you won't have completed traditional freshman and sophomore level physics (for physics majors) at your current school, so you can't expect to start advanced level physics courses at your new school right away. Core foundational physics courses typically follow a prescribed sequence (details of which depend on the school).

(2) So far, you've stated that you do not want to pursue PhD work in chemical physics. But you have not identified what field you do wish to pursue. With some exceptions perhaps, you will not pursue a PhD in theoretical or mathematical physics per se. You will pursue a PhD in theoretical or mathematical physics directed towards a particular field (such as, AMO, condensed matter, astro, high energy, ...).

(3) Your undergrad degree in physics will focus mainly on core foundational courses. Typically in junior and senior years you can take electives in specialized fields. For your new school, choose one that offers electives in specialized fields of interest to you (if you have any) or else one that offers a broad selection of electives.

(4) You need to start right now identifying candidate new schools for transfer. What are their application deadlines and application requirements? You should get in touch with their admissions offices, discuss your plans, discuss which courses completed at your current school will be credited towards requirements at your new school, and the best strategy for remedial courses in physics (e.g., do they offer a summer program?). Although you will have taken advanced math courses, look at the math courses required for physics majors at the new school. If you are missing any, try to complete them at your current school (assuming they are offerred).

ETA:

(5) You wrote: "Also, as I would at least finish my math major and chem minor (which could be complete by this coming spring), ..." Does this mean you would graduate with a bachelor's degree spring of 2027? If so, tred cautiously. Some universities won't admit you for an undergrad degree if you've already completed one. Then you would have to look at alternate plans.

 

[gleem]

I will graduate with majors in general engineering and mathematics with minors in chemistry and computer science.

Just to get a feel for the depth and breadth of your coursework, how many credit hours do you expect to have when you graduate, and how many credit hours for each of your two majors and two minors?

 

[Choppy]

Do you think I would be able to get a physics degree online (one that is competitive) or would transferring be better.

In general, transferring and attending a university in person would be the path I would recommend.
It is possible to get a physics degree from an online platform, and I imagine you'd be competitive with some of them. I'd research this carefully though. Look at data on where typical graduates (not just best case scenarios) are ending up. And that can be challenging to find sometimes.

Also, what if I had the core physics classes on my transcript without the degree?

Obviously this puts you in a better position than not having them.
A lot may come down to opinions of people on the specific admissions committee, but remember the pool of candidates you'll be competing against will likely be stacked with applicants who have all the core courses and all the relevant electives. From their perspective, admissions won't be so much "does EruedraithH meet the bar" as it will be "why should we take EruedraithH with an engineering degree and the minimum necessary coursework over a candidate A who has a physics degree?"

 

[CrysPhys]

Obviously this puts you in a better position than not having them.
A lot may come down to opinions of people on the specific admissions committee, but remember the pool of candidates you'll be competing against will likely be stacked with applicants who have all the core courses and all the relevant electives. From their perspective, admissions won't be so much "does EruedraithH meet the bar" as it will be "why should we take EruedraithH with an engineering degree and the minimum necessary coursework over a candidate A who has a physics degree?"

Yes, this point needs to be emphasized front and center. In the US, a PhD program in physics typically takes 6+ yrs. To make this worthwhile, you don't need to go to a top-tier school, but you do want to go to at least a good school. Grad school is at least an order of magnitude more difficult than undergrad. Many students in your (or similar) scenario focus on the minimum requirements for getting admitted into a PhD physics program. You should focus instead on an undergrad preparation that will allow you to at least succeed (and, ideally, to thrive and flourish) in a tough, competitive, arduous, extended program.

 

[EruedraithH]

But if I understand you correctly, you won't have completed traditional freshman and sophomore level physics (for physics majors) at your current school

True. Though I have had the physics I and II course for engineers (I'm not sure how similar this is) - and studied beyond what was taught in class.

(2) So far, you've stated that you do not want to pursue PhD work in chemical physics. But you have not identified what field you do wish to pursue.

Yeah this is a good point, and I'm currently doing research on this. I'm currently leaning towards QFT, AMO, or Mathematical.

(4) You need to start right now identifying candidate new schools for transfer. ... If you are missing any, try to complete them at your current school (assuming they are offerred).

Will do. Thank you. I've started looking at schools, so I'm hoping to have a good idea of where I would apply to within a few weeks. I'm visiting Missouri S&T this week and meeting with one of the physics professors to discuss grad school and what they would expect. So far I've taken almost all of the math my college provides, but I'll certainly look.

Does this mean you would graduate with a bachelor's degree spring of 2027? If so, tred cautiously. Some universities won't admit you for an undergrad degree if you've already completed one.

I could accelerate and drop engineering and CS to do it. Hmmm okay I will. I would probably try to double major in physics and math (depending on how many classes they let transfer).

Thanks!

 

[EruedraithH]

Just to get a feel for the depth and breadth of your coursework, how many credit hours do you expect to have when you graduate, and how many credit hours for each of your two majors and two minors?

Thanks for the reply!

Absolutely.
95 credits for engineering (major), 44 for math (major), 20 for chemistry (minor), and 26 for CS (minor).
Now there is a decent bit of overlap between math and engineering (about 24 credits).
The engineering covers the base engineering classes (physics I & II, statics, mechanics or materials, circuits, fluids, thermodynamics, etc.) and hits a little from each major discipline.
In addition to the math above, I've had linear algebra (not proof based though), probability and statistics, discrete/trig, and am in differential equations and the math capstone. I was planning on taking number theory, complex analysis, and maybe numerical analysis.
I'm on track to graduate with about 220 credits, having come in with some from high school.

Thank you!

 

[EruedraithH]

In general, transferring and attending a university in person would be the path I would recommend.
It is possible to get a physics degree from an online platform, and I imagine you'd be competitive with some of them. I'd research this carefully though. Look at data on where typical graduates (not just best case scenarios) are ending up. And that can be challenging to find sometimes.

Yeah that makes sense. Plus it would help a lot to have the resources such a university could provide. Trying to do one online might not be realistic given the number of classes I'm taking at my current school too.

Obviously this puts you in a better position than not having them.
A lot may come down to opinions of people on the specific admissions committee, but remember the pool of candidates you'll be competing against will likely be stacked with applicants who have all the core courses and all the relevant electives. From their perspective, admissions won't be so much "does EruedraithH meet the bar" as it will be "why should we take EruedraithH with an engineering degree and the minimum necessary coursework over a candidate A who has a physics degree?"

This is part of what is making me lean heavily towards transferring. While it's possible to get into grad school without physics, it does make it a lot harder. Sure the degrees I would get here would be valuable, but it won't give me the foundation I need for grad school in the same way going and getting a bachelors in physics with access to electives would. Now I'm not one to shy away from a challenge, but it doesn't make sense to choose the less helpful option (granted both are reasonable).

Thanks for the advice!