Change of variable dif equation problem

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around setting up and solving a differential equation related to the deceleration of a car due to braking forces. Participants explore various approaches to modeling the problem, including changes of variables and integration techniques.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the scenario of a car braking and proposes a differential equation based on Newton's second law.
  • Another participant suggests starting with the equation of motion and integrating to find velocity, but expresses uncertainty about the correctness of their approach.
  • A participant corrects the integration approach, emphasizing the need for a negative sign in the acceleration term.
  • There is a discussion about using partial fractions to integrate the equation and the implications of changing variables.
  • Some participants explore the substitution of variables, specifically suggesting using \( u = v^2 \) to simplify the equation.
  • Concerns are raised about the legality of factoring out terms in the context of the differential equation.
  • Another participant works through the integration of the modified equation and questions the sign of the resulting velocity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need for a negative acceleration term, but there are multiple competing views on the integration methods and variable substitutions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to solve the differential equation.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the integration steps and the implications of their variable substitutions. There are also unresolved questions about the correctness of certain mathematical manipulations.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for individuals interested in differential equations, particularly in the context of physics applications involving motion and forces.

spoon
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Driving your 1000 kg car on I-5 at 100 km/h, you suddenly noticed a large group of animals. You slam on a break and this provides a stopping force equal to v^3 plus the friction force of 10v. Set up and solve a differential equation for velocity. You need to find a suitable change of variable.
 
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What have you attempted?
 
So far? Nothing...I'm really looking for a place to start =(
 
Start off with Newton's 2nd Law

\sum_{i=1}^{n} F_{i} = m \frac{dv}{dt}
 
Alright, so I starting with Newton's equation...I'm thinking:
F = m*V = 1000*V
then I'm assuming F = Stopping force which is: F = V^3 +10V = 1000V
Integrating both sides...
(V^4)/4 + 5V^2 = 500V^2
Then solving for V, I got 13.416
But this totally seems wrong to me...
 
You cannot integrate it like that

v^3 + 10v = m \frac{dv}{dt}

\frac{dt}{m} = \frac{dv}{v^3 + 10v}
 
So integrating that I got
t/m = .1 ln|v| - .05 ln|v^2 + 10|
I wasn't really sure how to integrate the right hand side on paper, so I used my calculator
Solving for v, using m = 1000:
e^(t/50) = v/((v^2) + 10)
I used a variable g to = e^(t/50) which led to:
gv^2 +10g = v
I tried using the quadratic after that:
(1 +/- [1-40g]^.5 )/2g = v
now I'm totally confused
 
Last edited:
cyclovenom said:
v^3 + 10v = m \frac{dv}{dt}

If you think about this physically for a sec
you'll see you need a minus sign.
dv/dt really aught to be getting smaller
not bigger.

mv' = -(v^3 + 10v)

this is seperable as above.
-\frac{dv}{v^3 + 10v} = m dt

to integrate it we can breakit into partial fractions
\frac{1}{x^3 + 10x} = \frac{A}{x} + \frac{Bx + C}{x^2 + 10}
where we pick A, B, C to make the equality hold.

Once you've got the easier to integrate sides.
Integrate using the initial conditions.
\int_{v_0}^v \ldots dv = \int_0^t \ldots dt

then invert the formula to solve for v.


[or if we want to look for a change of vars..]
mv' + v^3 + 10v = 0.
so
m(vv') + v^4 + 10v^2 = 0

\frac{m}{2} \frac{d}{dt}(v^2) + (v^2)^2 + 10 (v^2) = 0

which looks awefully amenable to the substitution u=v^2..
 
Last edited:
You're right Qbert the aceleration should be negative, but you make a slight mistake, It's \frac{dt}{m}.
 
  • #10
qbert said:
[or if we want to look for a change of vars..]
mv' + v^3 + 10v = 0.
so
m(vv') + v^4 + 10v^2 = 0

\frac{m}{2} \frac{d}{dt}(v^2) + (v^2)^2 + 10 (v^2) = 0

which looks awefully amenable to the substitution u=v^2..

Following that...
since m = 1000
(500)u d/dt + u^2 + u = 0

Is it a legal operation to factor a "u" out of this equation?
 
  • #11
Cyclovenom said:
You're right Qbert the aceleration should be negative, but you make a slight mistake, It's \frac{dt}{m}

doh! hoisted by my own petard.
good catch.
 
  • #12
spoon said:
Following that...
since m = 1000
(500)u d/dt + u^2 + u = 0

Is it a legal operation to factor a "u" out of this equation?

no way! (in this context, d/dt standing alone is meaningless.)

you have to solve the ODE: m du/dt = -(u^2 + 10u).
 
  • #13
Okay, so I solving m du/dt = -(u^2 + 10u):
t/500 + C1 = 1/10 ln(u+10) - 1/10 ln(u)
t/50 + C2 = ln((u+10)/u) where C2 = 10*C1
e^(t/50 + C2) = Ce^(t/50)-1 = 10/u
u = 10(Ce^(t/50))^-1
v^2 = 10(Ce^(t/50))^(-1) -----> v = +/-[10(Ce^(t/50))^-1]^(1/2)
But v should just be the negative right?
 

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