Society and getting assaulted in jail

[PIT2]

I've been sentenced for a D.U.I. offense. My 3rd one. When I first came to prison, I had no idea what to expect. Certainly none of this. I'm a tall white male, who unfortunately has a small amount of feminine characteristics. And very shy. These characteristics have got me raped so many times I have no more feelings physically. I have been raped by up to 5 black men and two white men at a time. I've had knifes at my head and throat. I had fought and been beat so hard that I didn't ever think I'd see straight again. One time when I refused to enter a cell, I was brutally attacked by staff and taken to segragation though I had only wanted to prevent the same and worse by not locking up with my cell mate. There is no supervision after lockdown. I was given a conduct report. I explained to the hearing officer what the issue was. He told me that off the record, He suggests I find a man I would/could willingly have sex with to prevent these things from happening. I've requested protective custody only to be denied. It is not available here. He also said there was no where to run to, and it would be best for me to accept things . . . . I probably have AIDS now. I have great difficulty raising food to my mouth from shaking after nightmares or thinking to hard on all this . . . . I've laid down without physical fight to be sodomized. To prevent so much damage in struggles, ripping and tearing. Though in not fighting, it caused my heart and spirit to be raped as well. Something I don't know if I'll ever forgive myself for.
http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/prison/report.html#_1_2

Why isn't anything done against this?
Couldnt a prisoner sue the prisonsystem for getting aids?

 

[verty]

The problem is society because people don't want to know, they don't want to be concerned about those who go to prison. Once you're in prison, you're forgotten, supposedly you deserve what you get.

If we can displace our anger at the criminals, we can get around to treating them humanely.

 

[Moridin]

The problem is society because people don't want to know, they don't want to be concerned about those who go to prison. Once you're in prison, you're forgotten, supposedly you deserve what you get.

If we can displace our anger at the criminals, we can get around to treating them humanely.

The question is: "How far should humanity go?". They have been sent to jail as a punishment, for breaking a law. They shouldn't be handled with care like fragile goods. It is not the fault of the prison that there is an internal power struggle going on. The person above had been driving under the influence three times! What if he had killed someone you cared about? Would you want the killer to be treated with respect, have as much free time as possible away from the brutal reality of prisons. I sure wouldn't. If you commit a serious crime, you should pay for it, not be rewarded.

 

[verty]

How is humane treatment a reward? It defines our humanity, not theirs. Who is worse, the criminal or one who says he (or she) deserves to be raped in prison? This is not about rewards, it's about having the word 'human' mean something.

 

[humanino]

(...) If you commit a serious crime, you should pay for it, not be rewarded.

I thought it would take a little longer before such comments were posted.

Prison is already a very bad idea to deal with people having been the cause of problems to society. There are probably much better means, but not easy to implement.

Would you go as far as stating the following ? This is actually very good a situation, because it makes prison closer to hell, thus frightening people even more to go there. People will then think longer before they commit a crime, because prison is such a horrible punishment.

 

[ray b]

you can eazly judge a civilzation by the qualitys of its prisons
USA fails this test by a wide margin

 

[scott_alexsk]

How is that; do you have any proof?

-scott

 

[theCandyman]

How is humane treatment a reward? It defines our humanity, not theirs.

Well said!

 

[radou]

Prison is already a very bad idea to deal with people having been the cause of problems to society. There are probably much better means, but not easy to implement.

...which makes prison a good idea, at least for now.

Would you go as far as stating the following ? This is actually very good a situation, because it makes prison closer to hell, thus frightening people even more to go there. People will then think longer before they commit a crime, because prison is such a horrible punishment.

I agree with that.

 

[Moridin]

How is humane treatment a reward? It defines our humanity, not theirs. Who is worse, the criminal or one says he deserves to be raped in prison? This is not about rewards, it's about having the word 'human' mean something.

Let's start by redefining some basic axioms, shall we?

1. A prison is for containing people that have been sentenced to serve time in prison.
2. A prison is not a reward, but to punish people. People who by society has been deemed to be less humane themselves, as they committed a crime.
3. A prison should constrain the inmates in a sense as keeping them locked up, following certain procedures.
4. Putting someone that has committed a crime behind bars after a conviction is inhumane in the sense that it limits the human rights of the inmate.

In light of the above, your views seems to contradict itself. Should humans be treated inhumane but at the same time be treated humane? Where is the limit?

 

[verty]

Prison is to rehabilitate, Moridin. You've assumed what you wanted to show.

 

[Kurdt]

What use is a prison if all it does is disillusion those sent there for punishment about the rules that society purports to uphold? It then perpetuates the problem in as much as the prisoner can feel completely outcast by that society and reoffend in other ways because they have even less respect for it than when they went in.

 

[Cyrus]

Prison is to rehabilitate, Moridin. You've assumed what you wanted to show.

No its not. Its to punish people. Its not a rehab center. I guess he shouldn't have gotten his 3rd DUI.

He deserves what he gets, what an idiot.

These are not the right questions:

Why isn't anything done against this?
Couldnt a prisoner sue the prisonsystem for getting aids?

The right question is, how stupid can you be? I guess the first two DUI's were not a "clue" for him to straighten up....

 

[verty]

Still doesn't excuse it. All these "he should know better" arguments are utterly moot.

And the 'punishment' is a deterrent in the interest of rehabilitation, or at least it should be, insofar as it works and is humane.

 

[humanino]

He deserves what he gets, what an idiot.

Do you even know what you are talking about ?

How can one claim that, in order for someone to understand that it is not right to drive while under the influence the alcohol, destroying his inner personality is the answer ?

There is something you don't seem to realize : this person commited major mistakes, and instead of being helped, his ability to behave in society is annihilated. Possibly, a stupid young teenager has been turned into a dangerous violent beast. Is this good for society ? This cannot be considered to be the right answer. It simply does not make sens.

 

[Math Is Hard]

No its not. Its to punish people. Its not a rehab center. I guess he shouldn't have gotten his 3rd DUI.

I reckon he won't be getting a fourth one.

 

[humanino]

But come on, he could have gotten in jail for something less important.
Do you realize that some people get in prison by mistake ?
What if you, although innocent, tomorrow get arrested by mistake, and rapped tomorrow night, knowing that nobody will ever consider you were a victim ?

We cannot accept torture in prison. Torture can only be justified at war times. Then of course, I should not bring that here, because it all depends what you call war...

 

[Quaoar]

The question is: "How far should humanity go?". They have been sent to jail as a punishment, for breaking a law. They shouldn't be handled with care like fragile goods. It is not the fault of the prison that there is an internal power struggle going on. The person above had been driving under the influence three times! What if he had killed someone you cared about? Would you want the killer to be treated with respect, have as much free time as possible away from the brutal reality of prisons. I sure wouldn't. If you commit a serious crime, you should pay for it, not be rewarded.

Here's a question: What if prison rape wasn't incidental, but part of the punishment the courts handed down? As in, "you drove under the influence 3 times, we hereby sentence you to 10 years in jail and that you be raped 3 times, once for each offense!" Sounds a lot more cruel now, but guess what? It's the same end result as getting randomly raped!

 

[Cyrus]

Still doesn't excuse it. All these "he should know better" arguments are utterly moot.

And the 'punishment' is a deterrent in the interest of rehabilitation, or at least it should be, insofar as it works and is humane.

No, it is not moot. If you repeatedly commit a crime 3 times, dont cry me a river about paying the price. Anyone with half of a brain would know these things happen in jail and avoid going there.

What if you, although innocent, tomorrow get arrested by mistake, and rapped tomorrow night, knowing that nobody will ever consider you were a victim ?

AFAIK, when you get arrested you go into a holding cell, not a prison, until your trial ends. Totally different place.

This is not tortue on the part of the state. It is crimes within the jail. Everyone is held accountable for their actions.

 

[Quaoar]

Anyone with half of a brain would know these things happen in jail and avoid going there.

Anyone with half a brain wouldn't drive drunk in the first place.

 

[Cyrus]

Anyone with half a brain wouldn't drive drunk in the first place.

No, around here you can get a DUI if you have as much as 2 beers. You don't have to be even close to drunk to get screwed.

 

[humanino]

AFAIK, when you get arrested you go into a holding cell, not a prison, until your trial ends. Totally different place.

OK, blame it on the fact that I am not american and speak poorly your language, plus the fact that we have not the same laws... Anyway, it does not change anything. You did not answer my question, because you can't. You know that if you get raped in prison while you are innocent, you will feel that there is something wrong.

This is not torture on the part of the state. It is crimes within the jail. Everyone is held accountable for their actions.

Oh, OK, it is within the walls of the jails, not in your backyard.

Did you ever consider that it would be better to execute death-sentenced prisonner on the public place, on Sunday, and that everybody comes and enjoy the show, including children. That is a very good lesson for children if they want to learn that they must behave. It would be much more efficient than execute those people at 6am, where nobody can see it.

You are accountable for thinking that torture in prison should not be looked upon by the government. Nice way to rule a country.

Please, never spend your holiday in some countries (I will not quote), if you get in prison by mistake, it may shake your feelings.

I think I am loosing my nerve, and apologize if you find me rude.

 

[Kurdt]

No, it is not moot. If you repeatedly commit a crime 3 times, dont cry me a river about paying the price. Anyone with half of a brain would know these things happen in jail and avoid going there.

Just because these things are known to occur does not mean that they should be tolerated. It is not tolerated in society in general so why turn a blind eye when it occurs in prison and when it causes more social problems.

 

[Quaoar]

No, around here you can get a DUI if you have as much as 2 beers. You don't have to be even close to drunk to get screwed.

While I'll agree that the blood alcohol limit might be a little low in some places, that doesn't justify breaking the law. You have to be pretty dumb to drive with a few beers considering how steep the consequences for DUI are. Even if you are not impaired, what if you get into an accident?

In fact, I have a personal story to illustrate this point. I was driving home late one night; I had not been drinking, but I was very sleepy and I ran a red light. I ended up side-swiping a van that was going through the intersection. Neither me nor the other driver were injured, but my car was totaled (the van survived with a dent).

When the police showed up, they asked both me and the guy I had hit if we had been drinking, and the guy I hit said that he had "a few beers." When he got tested, he was over the legal limit. The accident was completely my fault, but guess who ended up spending the night in prison?

So, the moral is, don't drive unless you are sure you're below the limit, because unforeseen events can completely ruin your life for at least a couple years.

 

[Cyrus]

You know that if you get raped in prison while you are innocent, you will feel that there is something wrong.

Rape aside, if I am held in prison and I am innocent, I will feel something is wrong, yes?

Did you ever consider that it would be better to execute death-sentenced prisonner on the public place, on Sunday, and that everybody comes and enjoy the show, including children. That is a very good lesson for children if they want to learn that they must behave. It would be much more efficient than execute those people at 6am, where nobody can see it.

.....what?

You are accountable for thinking that torture in prison should not be looked upon by the government.

I never said it is acceptable. But it does happen, and you have to be an absolute idiot to think you can commit a crime 3 times and go to jail with little to no consequence. Now the guy is writting stories about his time in jail and looking for sympathy...none from me.

Please, never spend your holiday in some countries (I will not quote), if you get in prison by mistake, it may shake your feelings.

I have been to countries like that, and what does it have to do with what were talking about? Thats their legal system. Rape is not part of our legal system, so what does that have to do with anything?

Note: this things should not go on, but they do. He knew this, you all know this. That being said you would avoid going to jail. Give me a break.

 

[dontdisturbmycircles]

There should be preventative measures of course, being sexually assaulted is not meant to be part of the punishment. Although of course it is a prison, you have the worst of the worst in a building, sleeping in the same rooms, eating in the same rooms, what can you expect really? In order to prevent some of these things I think that you would need to assign a prison guard for each person, but that isn't very practical at all.

 

[scorpa]

They're in prison, they got there for a reason, I really don't care what happens to them.

 

[Cyrus]

While I'll agree that the blood alcohol limit might be a little low in some places, that doesn't justify breaking the law. You have to be pretty dumb to drive with a few beers considering how steep the consequences for DUI are. Even if you are not impaired, what if you get into an accident?

In fact, I have a personal story to illustrate this point. I was driving home late one night; I had not been drinking, but I was very sleepy and I ran a red light. I ended up side-swiping a van that was going through the intersection. Neither me nor the other driver were injured, but my car was totaled (the van survived with a dent).

When the police showed up, they asked both me and the guy I had hit if we had been drinking, and the guy I hit said that he had "a few beers." When he got tested, he was over the legal limit. The accident was completely my fault, but guess who ended up spending the night in prison?

So, the moral is, don't drive unless you are sure you're below the limit, because unforeseen events can completely ruin your life for at least a couple years.

Ouch, sucks for that guy!

 

[dontdisturbmycircles]

They're in prison, they got there for a reason, I really don't care what happens to them.

But does society benefit when they are released? The point should be to try to give prisoners motivation to become a productive part of society, not a hardened criminal who has been sexually abused and psychologically tortured. (although of course it should not resemble a community college, it has to be a punishment.) You should look at it from that point of view too I think. Also, I would guess that the people that tend to be abused are the people who are not as "hardcore", such as people who stole from the grocery store, you think that they should be raped without mercy?

 

[humanino]

Rape aside, if I am held in prison and I am innocent, I will feel something is wrong, yes?

Yes. I'm not going to blame my english again...

.....what?

You seem to me to say that it is right for him to punished, so he learns to behave. I am just hinting at other ways to learn people to behave. If punishment is the right answer to misbehaving, then it should be clearly shown to everybody, not just told as a concept. And I really think that, if you decide to have death-sentences, they should be on the public place. Otherwise, what's the use ?

I never said it is acceptable. But it does happen, and you have to be an absolute idiot to think you can commit a crime 3 times and go to jail with little to no consequence. Now the guy is writting stories about his time in jail and looking for sympathy...none from me.

To me those things are just too different. Being a stupid teenager and repeatidely commiting DUI is indeed quite idiot. But being rapped as a consequence...

I have never DUI, simply because I only recently had a car of my own. But when I was a teenager I commited some mistakes (maybe not as bad, well, it does not matter). I so happen to be a well integrated sociable, civilized (I think) person. I just try to imagine how different I would be if what happened to that guy happened to me.

I have been to countries like that, and what does it have to do with what were talking about? Thats their legal system. Rape is not part of our legal system, so what does that have to do with anything?

So you know one country were rape in prison is part of the legal system !?

 

[Cyrus]

humanino, look.

I hear what you are saying and I totally agree with you. These kinds of things should not happen. But what *really* pisses me off is when idiots like this guy go to jail and then they cry and cry about what happened to them. People like this are scum to society. I think they should get increased punishments for their stupidity.

 

[dontdisturbmycircles]

If a guy goes to jail and someone kills him, should that be okay?

Edit: let me reword it as it doesn't really get my point across. Should steps be taken to protect inmates from crimes? I think that is what the person is asking for in his story about rape in jail.

 

[Cyrus]

If a guy goes to jail and someone kills him, should that be okay?

Edit: let me reword it as it doesn't really get my point across. Should steps be taken to protect inmates from crimes? I think that is what the person is asking for in his story about rape in jail.

Actually, that is murder. If a guy is in jail for say 5-10 years, but kills someone while in jail, he will go from 5-10 to life in prison. Even in jail, the law applies.

 

[Math Is Hard]

If a guy goes to jail and someone kills him, should that be okay?

hmm...well, I was OK with what happened to Jeffrey Daumer.

 

[dontdisturbmycircles]

hmm...well, I was OK with what happened to Jeffrey Daumer.

Well that is true, I have a very hard time feeling sorry for him.

 

[humanino]

I think they should get increased punishments for their stupidity.

We disagree on one fact at least. I do not think that punishment is the right answer to social misbehavior.

I have always considered that prison is a mean to separate an individual from society, to let him time to realize what he did wrong. This separation, per se, is already quite a punishment, and we use it because we have no other mean as of today. A better solution would be if we can keep the person inside the society and survey his behavior constantly, in details. Have him psychologically helped if necessary.

That's just start, and that is already impossible to achieve unfortunately.

 

[dontdisturbmycircles]

Actually, that is murder. If a guy is in jail for say 5-10 years, but kills someone while in jail, he will go from 5-10 to life in prison. Even in jail, the law applies.

Yea, but rape is a crime as well of course. It should be prevented. Although I admit that it isn't practical to have a guard watch over the shoulder of each prisoner, and they don't really deserve that protection anyway - I happily admit that. Sometimes people do go to jail for dumb trivial things like gassing up the car and driving off, and I would guess that these people are often targeted because they lack the jail experience needed to survive there.

 

[Cyrus]

A better solution would be if we can keep the person inside the society and survey his behavior constantly, in details. Have him psychologically helped if necessary.

So I can get into a rage and kill 10 people and just have someone monitor me? That makes no sense.

 

[dontdisturbmycircles]

Yea, there are definitely some people that NEED to be separated from society permanently.

 

[imaplanck]

humanino, look.

I hear what you are saying and I totally agree with you. These kinds of things should not happen. But what *really* pisses me off is when idiots like this guy go to jail and then they cry and cry about what happened to them. People like this are scum to society. I think they should get increased punishments for their stupidity.

Yeah I'm sure you would feel exactly the same way if you were the one who made a similar mistake and subsequently payed the price with repeated rape.

I see your point that drink drivers, who put other peoples lives at risk in this way need to be punished, but this is by no means just punishment for the crime.

 

[humanino]

That makes no sense.

However, it would make more sens to try to understand why you were lead to kill those people, so as to prevent that it happens again. Monitoring is part of the process, if we could for instance monitor the person's reactions to different social situations etc... Putting somebody in jail for life is what makes no sens to me.

 

[Cyrus]

So are you going to monitor every single person in the entire world so now new crimes happen ever again? This logic is horribly flawed.

Putting someone in jail makes perfect sense. You committed a crime, and you must pay for that crime. This is how society functions, since the beginning of time. If it ant broke, don't fix it.

 

[humanino]

This logic is horribly flawed.

I know it is impossible. I'm just saying that this would be the right answer. The mere concept of prison is just not right.

And I believe the advance of computing technologies can make the survey possible. This is a bit scary however.

 

[Cyrus]

What is the right answer, having a society where everyone is monitored 24-7?

Yikes, and I thought communism was bad. This is outlandish. Not even in a perfect dreamworld would this work.

 

[humanino]

Putting someone in jail makes perfect sense.

I'll make a stupid analogy, enlighting why it does not make sens to me. If some piece of your computer is broken, you can either trash it and buy a new one, or fix it. Fixing it seems to be a better solution.

If somebody misbehave in society, have him fixed
I know I sound crazy.
It is just better than hidding him where nobody can see him and forget him. That will for sure not fix him to come back in society.

 

[humanino]

everyone monitored

Not everybody. Only those who misbehaved.

 

[Evo]

Sometimes people do go to jail for dumb trivial things like gassing up the car and driving off, and I would guess that these people are often targeted because they lack the jail experience needed to survive there.

It's doubtful that a person that commited a menial crime would be sent to a maximum security prison. That is where the really bad criminals are sent and that is where the type of things that the OP describes go on. Although it's likely to happen in any prison, someone convicted of a white collar crime is going to end up in a country club prison where that kind of behavior is unlikely.

Also, a local or county jail isn't like a federal prison.

 

[Loren Booda]

Late night comics have no humanity when joking about celebrities in jail being raped.

 

[Cyrus]

Not everybody. Only those who misbehaved.

And what about those people that will commit crimes for the first time? How do you stop that? It just makes no sense.

Unless you want tom cruise running your society.

 

[dontdisturbmycircles]

It's doubtful that a person that commited a menial crime would be sent to a maximum security prison. That is where the really bad criminals are sent and that is where the type of things that the OP describes go on. Although it's likely to happen in any prison, someone convicted of a white collar crime is going to end up in a country club prison where that kind of behavior is unlikely.

Also, a local or county jail isn't like a federal prison.

True, didn't consider that. Thanks.