Society and getting assaulted in jail

[Cyrus]

humanino, look.

I hear what you are saying and I totally agree with you. These kinds of things should not happen. But what *really* pisses me off is when idiots like this guy go to jail and then they cry and cry about what happened to them. People like this are scum to society. I think they should get increased punishments for their stupidity.

 

[dontdisturbmycircles]

If a guy goes to jail and someone kills him, should that be okay?

Edit: let me reword it as it doesn't really get my point across. Should steps be taken to protect inmates from crimes? I think that is what the person is asking for in his story about rape in jail.

 

[Cyrus]

If a guy goes to jail and someone kills him, should that be okay?

Edit: let me reword it as it doesn't really get my point across. Should steps be taken to protect inmates from crimes? I think that is what the person is asking for in his story about rape in jail.

Actually, that is murder. If a guy is in jail for say 5-10 years, but kills someone while in jail, he will go from 5-10 to life in prison. Even in jail, the law applies.

 

[Math Is Hard]

If a guy goes to jail and someone kills him, should that be okay?

hmm...well, I was OK with what happened to Jeffrey Daumer.

 

[dontdisturbmycircles]

hmm...well, I was OK with what happened to Jeffrey Daumer.

Well that is true, I have a very hard time feeling sorry for him.

 

[humanino]

I think they should get increased punishments for their stupidity.

We disagree on one fact at least. I do not think that punishment is the right answer to social misbehavior.

I have always considered that prison is a mean to separate an individual from society, to let him time to realize what he did wrong. This separation, per se, is already quite a punishment, and we use it because we have no other mean as of today. A better solution would be if we can keep the person inside the society and survey his behavior constantly, in details. Have him psychologically helped if necessary.

That's just start, and that is already impossible to achieve unfortunately.

 

[dontdisturbmycircles]

Actually, that is murder. If a guy is in jail for say 5-10 years, but kills someone while in jail, he will go from 5-10 to life in prison. Even in jail, the law applies.

Yea, but rape is a crime as well of course. It should be prevented. Although I admit that it isn't practical to have a guard watch over the shoulder of each prisoner, and they don't really deserve that protection anyway - I happily admit that. Sometimes people do go to jail for dumb trivial things like gassing up the car and driving off, and I would guess that these people are often targeted because they lack the jail experience needed to survive there.

 

[Cyrus]

A better solution would be if we can keep the person inside the society and survey his behavior constantly, in details. Have him psychologically helped if necessary.

So I can get into a rage and kill 10 people and just have someone monitor me? That makes no sense.

 

[dontdisturbmycircles]

Yea, there are definitely some people that NEED to be separated from society permanently.

 

[imaplanck]

humanino, look.

I hear what you are saying and I totally agree with you. These kinds of things should not happen. But what *really* pisses me off is when idiots like this guy go to jail and then they cry and cry about what happened to them. People like this are scum to society. I think they should get increased punishments for their stupidity.

Yeah I'm sure you would feel exactly the same way if you were the one who made a similar mistake and subsequently payed the price with repeated rape.

I see your point that drink drivers, who put other peoples lives at risk in this way need to be punished, but this is by no means just punishment for the crime.

 

[humanino]

That makes no sense.

However, it would make more sens to try to understand why you were lead to kill those people, so as to prevent that it happens again. Monitoring is part of the process, if we could for instance monitor the person's reactions to different social situations etc... Putting somebody in jail for life is what makes no sens to me.

 

[Cyrus]

So are you going to monitor every single person in the entire world so now new crimes happen ever again? This logic is horribly flawed.

Putting someone in jail makes perfect sense. You committed a crime, and you must pay for that crime. This is how society functions, since the beginning of time. If it ant broke, don't fix it.

 

[humanino]

This logic is horribly flawed.

I know it is impossible. I'm just saying that this would be the right answer. The mere concept of prison is just not right.

And I believe the advance of computing technologies can make the survey possible. This is a bit scary however.

 

[Cyrus]

What is the right answer, having a society where everyone is monitored 24-7?

Yikes, and I thought communism was bad. This is outlandish. Not even in a perfect dreamworld would this work.

 

[humanino]

Putting someone in jail makes perfect sense.

I'll make a stupid analogy, enlighting why it does not make sens to me. If some piece of your computer is broken, you can either trash it and buy a new one, or fix it. Fixing it seems to be a better solution.

If somebody misbehave in society, have him fixed
I know I sound crazy.
It is just better than hidding him where nobody can see him and forget him. That will for sure not fix him to come back in society.

 

[humanino]

everyone monitored

Not everybody. Only those who misbehaved.

 

[Evo]

Sometimes people do go to jail for dumb trivial things like gassing up the car and driving off, and I would guess that these people are often targeted because they lack the jail experience needed to survive there.

It's doubtful that a person that commited a menial crime would be sent to a maximum security prison. That is where the really bad criminals are sent and that is where the type of things that the OP describes go on. Although it's likely to happen in any prison, someone convicted of a white collar crime is going to end up in a country club prison where that kind of behavior is unlikely.

Also, a local or county jail isn't like a federal prison.

 

[Loren Booda]

Late night comics have no humanity when joking about celebrities in jail being raped.

 

[Cyrus]

Not everybody. Only those who misbehaved.

And what about those people that will commit crimes for the first time? How do you stop that? It just makes no sense.

Unless you want tom cruise running your society.

 

[dontdisturbmycircles]

It's doubtful that a person that commited a menial crime would be sent to a maximum security prison. That is where the really bad criminals are sent and that is where the type of things that the OP describes go on. Although it's likely to happen in any prison, someone convicted of a white collar crime is going to end up in a country club prison where that kind of behavior is unlikely.

Also, a local or county jail isn't like a federal prison.

True, didn't consider that. Thanks.

 

[humanino]

And what about those people that will commit crimes for the first time? How do you stop that? It just makes no sense.

One cannot prevent that in any other manner than a higher level of education. It is highly desirable independently of the problem at hand.

Unless you want tom cruise running your society.

I've seen this movie, yes
What a terrible thought you gave me : Tom Cruise as president
Only in the US of A actors become presidents

 

[FUNKER]

It's doubtful that a person that commited a menial crime would be sent to a maximum security prison. That is where the really bad criminals are sent and that is where the type of things that the OP describes go on. Although it's likely to happen in any prison, someone convicted of a white collar crime is going to end up in a country club prison where that kind of behavior is unlikely.

Also, a local or county jail isn't like a federal prison.

This goes some way to make prison a more palatable idea for criminals, staggered degrees of imprisonment.
This guys life is over. 3 DUI's = no life gutted.
Someone should make a poll, whether this guy will kill himself inside prison, outside prison or serve his time and be 'fine'

 

[mattmns]

I haven't read all the posts, but I think for anyone that drinks and drives this is great punishment. I would have recommended it after the first conviction though. People that drink and drive make me sick.

 

[dontdisturbmycircles]

This thread reminds me of something a judge said in the movie "office space."

To clarify for anyone who did not see it: The main characters stole a lot of money from their company (by mistake, sorta) and the guy is having a dream and the judge looks down at him seriously and says sternly "I hereby sentence you to ten years in a federal pound me in the a-- prison."

I suppose it does show that it is sort of expected in the very tough prisons, as evo pointed out. I wonder how hard the guards work to try to prevent it from happening.

 

[imaplanck]

I haven't read all the posts, but I think for anyone that drinks and drives this is great punishment. I would have recommended it after the first conviction though. People that drink and drive make me sick.

It was my understanding that it was the first conviction, isn't it 3 strikes and you're out, for americans?


Over here they are more lenient still, especially for young offenders(sometimes they have a catalogue of offenses with no conviction) .


I personally think the prison sentence(minus gang rape) is harsh enough in this case, seeing as there is no actual desire to harm others and all.

 

[scorpa]

But does society benefit when they are released? The point should be to try to give prisoners motivation to become a productive part of society, not a hardened criminal who has been sexually abused and psychologically tortured. (although of course it should not resemble a community college, it has to be a punishment.) You should look at it from that point of view too I think. Also, I would guess that the people that tend to be abused are the people who are not as "hardcore", such as people who stole from the grocery store, you think that they should be raped without mercy?

Honestly if they are in prison I just don't really care what happens to them. Prison is pretty easy to avoid, don't do anything wrong, don't cry to me if you end up in jail and bad things happen to you, chances are if you are in jail you did something bad to someone else. I am in no way condoning what is going on in there but at the same time it is pretty easily avoided (ie don't commit a crime) and I have very little sympathy for those in the situation.

 

[franznietzsche]

Prison is to rehabilitate, Moridin. You've assumed what you wanted to show.

Wrong.

Prison is to keep criminals away from where they can hurt everyone else. Prison isn't about helping criminals--its about protecting innocents.

Granted, that view is entirely reconcilable with a much more humane approach to prison management.

 

[Integral]

Prisons are a form of school. Put in a punk a$$ kid, get out a hardened trained criminal.

Wonderful places prisons, I think we need more.

 

[whatta]

Prisons are a form of school. Put in a punk a$$ kid, get out a hardened trained criminal.

Wonderful places prisons, I think we need more.

surely gas chambers would be safer in this regard, but that's a big no-no, so we'll have to limit ourselves to prisons so far.

 

[verty]

FranzNietzsche, if prison was to 'keep criminals away' then they would never be released. They are released which implies the purpose is rehabilitation.

One more thing. If you want to find evil, you only need to look for the words "I don't care". That attitude is the root of all evil.

Cyrus, the system ain't broke? Your glasses are so rose-coloured, they fail to resemble reality.