Should Physics Forums Offer Premium Memberships?

[Greg Bernhardt]

I want to raise the question of offering premium memberships here at Physics Forums. The goal is to not only raise money for the Physics Network, but to equip all of you with useful and fun new features. I am interested in your opinons and feedback on the following two possible membership plans.

Silver Membership
------------------------

* Membership title
* 200 PM limit
* No ads

$25/yr


Gold Membership
------------------------

* Membership title
* 200 PM limit
* No ads
* Ability to give members reputation points
* PF IE toolbar (spell check, search references, calulators...)
* PF Journal (like a personal blog on the forums, a personal comment area for you to write in)
* Can choose from several forum skins
* PF Email (hotmail style in the forums)
* 5mb of webspace (yourname.physicsforums.com) on request

For: $75/yr or $225 lifetime

 

[cookiemonster]

Membership title: Never much cared about that...
200 PM limit: ?
No ads: Got software to replace ads with "This page cannot be displayed" anyway

Ability to give members reputation points: Sounds like a $75 toy. Besides, nothing's stopped anyone from making fun of them anyway, right?
PF IE toolbar: Wouldn't use it, and I despise spellcheck.
PF Journal: See toolbar.
Forum skins: Blah, not too picky.
E-mail: School's going to give me e-mail anyway.
Webspace: School's going to give me webspace anyway.

$75/$225: I'm trying to afford tuition whilst not starving... =\

That's just me, though.

cookiemonster

 

[jeff]

Originally posted by Greg Bernhardt
...am interested in your...feedback...

Sitting-Duck Membership: Ability to be sh*t on by paying members.

Silver Membership: Same as sitting-duck membership, except you pay $25/yr.

Gold Membership: Ability to give members reputation points.

Platinum Membership: Ability to post your psychological evaluations of other members.

Weapons-grade plutonium membership: Ability to actually order hits on other members.

 

[Bystander]

You're going to have to offer something "active" in the way of feedback/interaction with the site for even $25 --- instead of "reputation points," how about the ability to "gag" other members --- say, oh, what --- 20 members hit the "gag" button for an individual in a particular forum, said individual is unable to post until such time as he/she/it has figured out which members are gagging him/her/it, and works out some arrangement through PMs (no gag) with enough gaggers to get under the "20 gag, no post" feature.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Originally posted by Bystander
You're going to have to offer something "active" in the way of feedback/interaction with the site for even $25 --- instead of "reputation points," how about the ability to "gag" other members --- say, oh, what --- 20 members hit the "gag" button for an individual in a particular forum, said individual is unable to post until such time as he/she/it has figured out which members are gagging him/her/it, and works out some arrangement through PMs (no gag) with enough gaggers to get under the "20 gag, no post" feature.

I would think PF in and of it's self is worth $2/m The reputation system can be worked on to include such features.

Sitting-Duck Membership: Ability to be sh*t on by paying members.

Silver Membership: Same as sitting-duck membership, except you pay $25/yr.

Gold Membership: Ability to give members reputation points.

The reputation system is very flexible and feature rich. It's not as if a nutcase can destroy a persons reputation.

I guess what it comes down to is what would you all like to see and be willing to chip into PF. I don't want to have to install popups, disable latex, disable signatures, avatars... j/k

Thanks for your comments, I welcome more!

 

[jeff]

Originally posted by Bystander
You're going to have to offer something "active" in the way of feedback/interaction with the site for even $25 --- instead of "reputation points," how about the ability to "gag" other members --- say, oh, what --- 20 members hit the "gag" button for an individual in a particular forum, said individual is unable to post until such time as he/she/it has figured out which members are gagging him/her/it, and works out some arrangement through PMs (no gag) with enough gaggers to get under the "20 gag, no post" feature.

Seriously greg, the idea of allowing paying members to "officially" pass judgement on other members is just plain nutty.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Originally posted by jeff
Seriously greg, the idea of allowing paying members to "officially" pass judgement on other members is just plain nutty.

Ok fair enough

 

[wolram]

GREG if you want $ for PF, gimmics not needed, how about
information? quick fact find, alert to new papers by
subject etc.

 

[jeff]

I think that charging kids for assitance with their studies, just like one would do with a tutor, makes sense. I'm sure some parents wouldn't mind paying for such a service, especially at the prices you're talking about.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Originally posted by jeff
I think that charging kids for assitance with their studies, just like one would do with a tutor, makes sense. I'm sure some parents wouldn't mind paying for such a service, especially at the prices you're talking about.

Yeah I was reminded of a service I think google has where people bid for answers or help.

 

[Loren Booda]

How about a limited time (a month, say) for new members to try Physics Forums, after which they would pay a small, one-time initiation fee ($5, say). That would be similar (but much cheaper) to other websites we have seen. With 6,710 current PF members, the fees would accrue $33,550! The ads aren't egregious, just an annoyance, but the permanent initiation fee would render them unnecessary.

Unfortunately, this policy would void the free forum we are used to, and discriminates against those without much resource (homeless, third world, etc.)

 

[Nereid]

Originally posted by Loren Booda
How about a limited time (a month, say) for new members to try Physics Forums, after which they would pay a small, one-time initiation fee ($5, say). That would be similar (but much cheaper) to other websites we have seen. With 6,710 current PF members, the fees would accrue $33,550! The ads aren't egregious, just an annoyance, but the permanent initiation fee would render them unnecessary.

Unfortunately, this policy would void the free forum we are used to, and discriminates against those without much resource (homeless, third world, etc.)

I think you'll find it's not so much not having $$ (or €, £, ...), rather having no way to make the payment.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Originally posted by Loren Booda
How about a limited time (a month, say) for new members to try Physics Forums, after which they would pay a small, one-time initiation fee ($5, say). That would be similar (but much cheaper) to other websites we have seen. With 6,710 current PF members, the fees would accrue $33,550! The ads aren't egregious, just an annoyance, but the permanent initiation fee would render them unnecessary.

Unfortunately, this policy would void the free forum we are used to, and discriminates against those without much resource (homeless, third world, etc.)

That is definitely an option, but personally not something I could actually go through with. I want basic use of PF to always be free.

I think you'll find it's not so much not having $$ (or €, £, ...), rather having no way to make the payment.

Paypal has always be an easy way to make a payment, most currencies and credit cards are accepted.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

In addition to my previous post: What if we slit the site into two sections. What you see now will be for paying members and we can create an alternate set of forums for non-paying. The alternate set would only consist of just a few forums with very basic posting and community abilities. Would that create a revolt?

 

[wolram]

how much for paying members? do we pay by week, month, year
this forums success is due to wide audience, if we have to
pay it will end up like sky tv, this forum is unique, and
needs unique solution to stay afloat.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

In addition to my previous post: What if we split the site into two sections. What you see now will be for paying members and we can create an alternate set of forums for non-paying. The alternate set would only consist of just a few forums with very basic posting and community abilities. Would that create a revolt?

Originally posted by wolram
how much for paying members? do we pay by week, month, year
this forums success is due to wide audience, if we have to
pay it will end up like sky tv, this forum is unique, and
needs unique solution to stay afloat.

How much is an interesting question. It depends on how many people would sign up. I figure we have maybe 1000 members who return on weekly basis. So if we can get 3/4 of them to pay then the yearly rate would be extremely low, something like $10. I agree we need creative solutions, this is a good thread and hope other chips in their 2c.

 

[Evo]

Greg, you have done an incredible job on this site.

I for one would be willing to pay a membership fee to keep PF going. Even $25 annually is not much when you consider that's the equivalent of a large order of fries each month. You could charge $15 for a 6 month membership or $25 for a full year.

Of course the lower the fee, the more members you'll have.

Paypal would be a very good option, you definitely do not want to handle cash, checks, money orders and credit card transactions on your own, especially on a global basis.

Your idea of segmenting the site for paying and non-paying members sounds good to me.

 

[Monique]

Ok, so how does paypal work? Would someone from a not-so-developed country be able to use it too? How does it work for under aged people? Does it require a credit card? If so, it is only in the US that people actually own a credit card..

 

[cookiemonster]

Segmenting the site sounds kind of counter-productive to me. If there were only discussions between established members, it'd wouldn't be such a lively place. Lots of the questions and ideas come from brand new members, members who probably aren't willing to pay $15 or $25 just to ask one question.

cookiemonster

 

[Monique]

I too think it shouldn't become an exclusive site. I think it should be the responsibility of the ones who use this site most and enjoy it, to chip in some money on a yearly basis.

The way to do that, I think, is be very open about donations and giving an award for doing so. Make a list of all the contributers and make it visible, maybe give them an title under their avatar 'PF contributor'. Advertise it by sending a goody like PF on a CD (as has been done in the past). Ofcourse t-shirts would be great advertisement in the real world :D

Also, I think the extra forum features should then be a reward, rather than an incentive.

 

[cookiemonster]

PF on a CD? How exactly would you stick the constantly-changing internet on a very static CD?

cookiemonster

 

[Monique]

As an archive of the forums.

 

[Evo]

Originally posted by Monique
Ok, so how does paypal work? Would someone from a not-so-developed country be able to use it too? How does it work for under aged people? Does it require a credit card? If so, it is only in the US that people actually own a credit card..

Paypal is very easy and is available from a lot of countries. You can pay either with a credit card or from a bank account. It's available from The Netherlands! www.paypal.com

Originally posted by Monique
I too think it shouldn't become an exclusive site. I think it should be the responsibility of the ones who use this site most and enjoy it, to chip in some money on a yearly basis.

The way to do that, I think, is be very open about donations and giving an award for doing so. Make a list of all the contributers and make it visible, maybe give them an title under their avatar 'PF contributor'.

On second thought, I think your idea might be better. Greg can start by proactively soliciting the top users of the site and see how many are willing to be "PF Sponsors". There could be levels of sponsorship - bronze, silver, gold, platinum. They would get recognition for their level of contribution on their avatar.

Surely there are enough gainfully employed people on PF to help support it.

If for any reason he would still need to go to a "member pay site" the contributors would have their donations applied to membership, so there is no risk.

 

[Loren Booda]

Evo

There could be levels of sponsorship - bronze, silver, gold, platinum

Don't forget quarkonium!

 

[Janitor]

Please

Define "gainfully employed" for us.

 

[cookiemonster]

I could define "not gainfully employed" for you... ;)

cookiemonster

 

[Evo]

Originally posted by Janitor
Define "gainfully employed" for us.

You still have money the day "after" you get paid.

Originally posted by Loren Booda
Evo Don't forget quarkonium!

No one could afford that level.

 

[wolram]

10$= about 2 packs fags, 4 bacon sarnies, 3 pints beer or
fish and chips for 2, I'm bitting my nails in indecision as
to which to forgo so i can support my PF habit.

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Probably the only logical split would be "adult forum content", (the 'Physics of Sex' as eg) an adult section, that is a paid membership to enter...only difficulty is age verification...after that, adults should be the ones with the money to pay for the right to cuss, and curse, and whatever else that would want to do in a 'protected from children" environment...that could also help to keep the rest of the forum up, interesting, and active!


...but do whatever you want...right!?

 

[Zero]

Can you pay an extra $5 to have someone nag you to send in your money?

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Originally posted by Zero
Can you pay an extra $5 to have someone nag you to send in your money?

haha, hire a collector? I'll form a secret service to ruff up those who aren't supporting lol

 

[Mr. Robin Parsons]

Can you pay an extra $5 to have someone nag you to send in your money?

I'll do it for $3.99 US (taxes, and, transportation, extra{s}) or less, if someone else offers lower...

 

[The_Professional]

Premium Memberships

First of all, I like the new colors and the new logo on top. The site has a very clean and smooth feel to it. Very easy on the eyes.

I also think it's a bad idea to split the site into two sections, we'll just confuse people and certainly drive them away. As far as paying for a fee, I certainly don't want to, but I'm still kinda split, some more features have to be added if I'm going to pay for something. Perhaps, some java games, a private photo gallery where we can store our photos for everyone to see, and also the ability to either make this private or public viewing.

Another idea, is we can put some tiny stars under each paying Username. Like for example, a bunch of silver stars for premium members, a bunch of gold stars for the Super duper advanced paying member and a little recognition under the name saying premium member, platinum, gold star etc..
Unfortunately, the downside to this is people would unconsciously perceive that so and so's post matters most because of that tiny rank..and stars.

As far as reputation points go, I have quite a bit of experience on another forum where people are allowed to give positive and negative points based on posts and leave anonymous messages on why they like or don't like it. But like most system, people abused it. Some people would end up making two accounts and giving positive points to the new account. It also turned into a popularity contest.

So let's say User A just signed up and paid $225 for a lifetime membership with 0 posts. Would you be comfortable with this person giving you reputation points when he hasn't earned the respect of the community?

My 2 pesos, Cheers

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

First of all, I like the new colors and the new logo on top. The site has a very clean and smooth feel to it. Very easy on the eyes.

I also think it's a bad idea to split the site into two sections, we'll just confuse people and certainly drive them away. As far as paying for a fee, I certainly don't want to, but I'm still kinda split, some more features have to be added if I'm going to pay for something. Perhaps, some java games, a private photo gallery where we can store our photos for everyone to see, and also the ability to either make this private or public viewing.

Another idea, is we can put some tiny stars under each paying Username. Like for example, a bunch of silver stars for premium members, a bunch of gold stars for the Super highly advanced paying member and a little recognition under the name saying premium member, platinum, gold star etc..
Unfortunately, the downside to this is people would unconsciously perceive that so and so's post matters most because of that tiny rank..and stars.

As far as reputation points go, I have quite a bit of experience on another forum where people are allowed to give positive and negative points based on posts and leave anonymous messages on why they like or don't like it. But like most system, people abused it. Some people would end up making two accounts and giving positive points to the new account. It also turned it into a popularity contest.

So let's say User A just signed up and paid $225 for a lifetime membership with 0 posts. Would you be comfortable with this person giving you reputation points when he hasn't earned the respect of the community?

My 2 pesos, Cheers

There definitely will be some perks for being a contributing member, some added now and some added later. As for the reputation system I think I'm going to try it. However only enable positive feedback.

 

[Janitor]

I kinda like the gold stars idea, actually.

One of my senior co-workers was given a golden mop to pin on his lapel after he reached 30 years of service.

 

[The_Professional]

Greg, when you implement the reputation system you may also want to put some checks and balances such as User A can't give anymore reputation points to the same User B until after he assigns to 15-20 other users. And User A can't start handing out reputation points until after he has at least 100 posts.

And it would be cool if the less or more reputation then the more stars/symbols under the name

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Greg, when you implement the reputation system you may also want to put some checks and balances such as User A can't give anymore reputation points to the same User B until after he assigns to 15-20 other users. And User A can't start handing out reputation points until after he has at least 100 posts.

And it would be cool if the less or more reputation then the more stars/symbols under the name

Everything you just said can and will be done, plus more! Trust me it's a really nice and flexible system

 

[The_Professional]

Everything you just said can and will be done, plus more! Trust me it's a really nice and flexible system

YAY!

One thing I notice, I think the Quick reply post underneath is counter intuitive. It encourages people to be lazy..

"Hey, I can post a one line response wheeeeeeeee!.."

 

[ShawnD]

If you want the no ads thing to be enticing, you need more adds on the website. I don't even see that google ad thing right now, did you take it down?
Try lining the top, bottom, and sides of the site with dynamic ads.

If you wanted to focus on saving money, you could have it so avatars must be hosted by the user and not the forum. Most of us have access to webspace anyway.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

If you want the no ads thing to be enticing, you need more adds on the website. I don't even see that google ad thing right now, did you take it down?
Try lining the top, bottom, and sides of the site with dynamic ads.

If you wanted to focus on saving money, you could have it so avatars must be hosted by the user and not the forum. Most of us have access to webspace anyway.

Everyone can thank Shawn when I install 10 popups and animated flash banners! lol

You don't see the banner or google anymore? I've been playing with getting them to display only for some usergroups. Maybe I did it wrong.

 

[ShawnD]

The banners won't bother me as long as they're not those flashing ones that cause seizures. Banner ads are how I discovered tshirthell.com
I really want the shirt that says "WWJD for a Klondike Bar"

And no, I do not see that google bar right now.

 

[The_Professional]

How about adding a hooded PF sweatshirt and PF cap for the Super Duper paying members along with the other goodies

 

[rattis]

I like the idea of the gold membership, especialy the toolbar, and I am always up for les ads.

At those prices i would expect a student discount to be avaliable for those such as myself in full-time education. And what about paying in £ or euros?

What about a custom rank, authorised by an admin of course.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I like the idea of the gold membership, especialy the toolbar, and I am always up for les ads.

At those prices i would expect a student discount to be avaliable for those such as myself in full-time education. And what about paying in £ or euros?

Again I want to state that there will be a few different levels of membership. The first being around only a $1-$2 a month. I think just about anyone can afford that.

What about a custom rank, authorised by an admin of course

Absolutely

 

[deda]

I want to raise the question of offering premium memberships here at Physics Forums. The goal is to not only raise money for the Physics Network, but to equip all of you with useful and fun new features. I am interested in your opinons and feedback on the following two possible membership plans.

Silver Membership
------------------------

* Membership title
* 200 PM limit
* No ads

$25/yr


Gold Membership
------------------------

* Membership title
* 200 PM limit
* No ads
* Ability to give members reputation points
* PF IE toolbar (spell check, search references, calulators...)
* PF Journal (like a personal blog on the forums, a personal comment area for you to write in)
* Can choose from several forum skins
* PF Email (hotmail style in the forums)
* 5mb of webspace (yourname.physicsforums.com) on request

For: $75/yr or $225 lifetime

I think this would be the most logical development of initially "free of charge" luched PF. But PF's not fun for me. It's a tool like car thanks to which I expect to reach then remedy the public opinion. Why paying to the one I do favour to?

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

I think this would be the most logical development of initially "free of charge" luched PF. But PF's not fun for me. It's a tool like car thanks to which I expect to reach then remedy the public opinion. Why paying to the one I do favour to?

Why would you be here if you didn't have fun? Someone forcing you to post? The memberships aren't for everyone and they won't be mandatory. Just a good way to increase funds and enable more functionality.

 

[Jack Martinelli]

Instead of a subscription fee, how about a fine for those who violate the rules. You'd have to require members to submit credit info. so that you or a panel of judges could give a thumbs up or down on suspects.

Or how about a lottery? There aren't that many people here so the chances of winning are tons better than a state lottery. A member could buy a ticket with a half-life of 137 days at a cost of say $20.

Either idea depends on the ethics of the administration. A flat fee doesn't.

Awards are another way to go. Get contributions from rich people. At the end of the year offer a PhF. Amount TBD. The board takes 10% and the awardee gets the rest. Or put the contributions in a mutual fund & each year the award is what the fund earned.

There is a large difference between discussion & collaboration. How about a natural selection pressure that selects among those that qualify for collaboration. Those of us who want to work on reseach problems would pay the extra fee. Or those winning the award can move to the collaboration group.

How about read-only for free. RW is not.

All of these could be combined in lots of different ways.

 

[Monique]

It's a tool like car thanks to which I expect to reach then remedy the public opinion. Why paying to the one I do favour to?

You pay to drive a car right? You even pay to hitch a ride on a subway. Just a thought :P

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Instead of a subscription fee, how about a fine for those who violate the rules. You'd have to require members to submit credit info. so that you or a panel of judges could give a thumbs up or down on suspects.

Or how about a lottery? There aren't that many people here so the chances of winning are tons better than a state lottery. A member could buy a ticket with a half-life of 137 days at a cost of say $20.

Either idea depends on the ethics of the administration. A flat fee doesn't.

Awards are another way to go. Get contributions from rich people. At the end of the year offer a PhF. Amount TBD. The board takes 10% and the awardee gets the rest. Or put the contributions in a mutual fund & each year the award is what the fund earned.

There is a large difference between discussion & collaboration. How about a natural selection pressure that selects among those that qualify for collaboration. Those of us who want to work on reseach problems would pay the extra fee. Or those winning the award can move to the collaboration group.

How about read-only for free. RW is not.

All of these could be combined in lots of different ways.

Jack thank you for your comments and suggestions. However there is no way for me to securely store credit card numbers and overall that just doesn't seem like good idea. A lottery system has a lot of legal implications and would get messy. As for the mutual fund, I'm not about to risk contributers money. As for read only members, that has been discussed and we'd like to keep basic reading/posting free. Radical, but interesting ideas jack, well done!

 

[The_Professional]

How much for r00t?