Flavors of the Past: Classic Recipes vs. Modern Blasphemy

[Evo]

Food blasphemy!

I've noticed it's become trendy to take well loved, traditional recipes and create "updated" versions of them. I've also found that the "updated" version is usually not even close to the tasty original and can actually be quite revolting, if not frightening.

I was looking for chicken cacciatore recipes online. This I thought was a no brainer, chicken, a marinara type tomato sauce, mushrooms and olives, served over pasta.

Instead I find "In our updated version of the classic Chicken Cacciatore, we have substituted tofu for the chicken, mango chutney for the tomato sauce, chilled and poured over a bed of mung bean sprouts".

It's like the "cheesy breakfast baklava" recipe I found. That's NOT baklava! (although I admit as a cheese and phyllo dough recipe it looked quite yummy).

And the "chocolate mousse" recipe that contained peach puree and no chocolate.

Come on people. There are traditional, classic recipes that should be made in a certain way with certain ingredients. Once you change that, you can no longer call it by that name.

Like my friend's frozen "meatless chicken and vegetables" dinner. I think "meatless" might mean there isn't really any chicken in it. Is it legal to call it chicken?

It's like non-alcoholic wine. Uhm, maybe that would be GRAPE JUICE? Except it's packaged in a wine botle and costs 10 times more than grape juice.

I guess my rant is brought about by the destruction of some very old, out of print cookbooks I had and I'm trying to find the REAL recipes and all I'm finding are these bastardized imitations.

Am I the only one that thinks classic recipes are classic for a reason?

 

[Math Is Hard]

I was looking for chicken cacciatore recipes online. This I thought was a no brainer, chicken, a marinara type tomato sauce, mushrooms and olives, served over pasta.

Instead I find "In our updated version of the classic Chicken Cacciatore, we have substituted tofu for the chicken, mango chutney for the tomato sauce, chilled and poured over a bed of mung bean sprouts".

Just like chicken cacciatore - only different!

ay yi yi!

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Does anyone know of a Mexican restaurant that still fries their own taco shells? I've noticed lately that even the better restaurants are using those crappy preformed shells that taste like paper.

 

[turbo]

Bad, bad, bad!

 

[G01]

Cheese baklava??!


People have been saying the world is going to hell...but until now I didn't believe them.

 

[radou]

I'm hungry...again.

 

[Evo]

Cheese baklava??!


People have been saying the world is going to hell...but until now I didn't believe them.

I kid you not. The only ingredient this shares with baklava (which is a sweet desert pastry) is the phyllo.

Cheesy Brunch Baklava

INGREDIENTS

1 lb. Italian sausage
1 cup chopped onion
1 cup chopped red bell pepper
2 cups (8 oz.) Sargento® Fancy Mozzarella Shredded Cheese
1 cup Sargento® Part-Skim Ricotta Cheese
1 egg, beaten
16 sheets (about 1/2 pkg.) prepared frozen phyllo pastry, thawed
Non-stick cooking spray


DIRECTIONS

Preparation Time: 20 minutes
Baking Time: 35 minutes
Serves: 8

Cook sausage, onion and red pepper in large skillet over medium heat until meat is brown and crumbly; drain and cool. Combine Mozzarella cheese, Ricotta cheese, egg and sausage mixture; set aside.

Spray 13x9-inch baking dish with non-stick cooking spray. Trim phyllo sheets to 13x9-inch. Working with one sheet at a time, (keep remaining phyllo covered), spray eight sheets with cooking spray.

Place phyllo pastry into prepared baking dish. Spoon filling over phyllo. Spray remaining 8 sheets with cooking spray and layer over filling. Using a sharp knife, cut into 8 squares. Bake, uncovered, in preheated 400°F oven 35 minutes or until golden brown.

http://www.sargentocheese.com/recipe/recipeDetail.jsp?recipeId=436

 

[G01]

I kid you not. The only ingredient this shares with baklava (which is a sweet desert pastry) is the phyllo.

Baklava is delicious. The only problem with it is that if you eat a 1in. X 1in. square you automatically have rotted teeth.

Italian Sausage in Baklava...AHHH!...Might as well make apple pie with meatloaf in it, or tofu gyros, or chick pea falafel...o wait...that last one is correct. Now I'm all confused!

 

[radou]

Interesting, I never knew Baklava was popular in the west.

 

[Astronuc]

There are traditional, classic recipes that should be made in a certain way with certain ingredients. Once you change that, you can no longer call it by that name.

Indeed!

Baklava is a sweet pastry made of layers of phyllo dough filled with chopped nuts, usually walnuts or pistachios, and sweetened with sugar or honey syrup.

Honey is better than sugar.

Anything other than those ingredients - it is NOT baklava!

Now there is something called banitsa which is similar to the Cheesy Brunch Baklava, but banitsa is primarily phyllo and cheese without the meat. Sausage is OK, but thinly sliced prosciutto is better.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banitsa

 

[JasonRox]

Instead I find "In our updated version of the classic Chicken Cacciatore, we have substituted tofu for the chicken, mango chutney for the tomato sauce, chilled and poured over a bed of mung bean sprouts".

Um... we have vegetarians today. Thought about that?

I wouldn't eat that though. Sounds gross.

 

[Evo]

Um... we have vegetarians today. Thought about that?

I wouldn't eat that though. Sounds gross.

The point though, is that it's no longer cacciatore. Cacciatore is a traditional rustic stew with meat, tomato sauce, mushrooms and olives.

It's not chocolate mousse if it's made of fruit and no chocolate, it's not chicken if it doesn't contain chicken. But I see this happening all over the place. People taking a recipe and changing all of the ingredients so that the end product has nothing to do with the original.

 

[Evo]

Now there is something called banitsa which is similar to the Cheesy Brunch Baklava, but banitsa is primarily phyllo and cheese without the meat. Sausage is OK, but thinly sliced prosciutto is better.

Actually, it's closer to spanakopita, at least that's not a sweet desert.

 

[Moonbear]

Um... we have vegetarians today. Thought about that?

Then why not call it tofu with mango chutney sauce? Why call it chicken cacciatore when it has no chicken and nothing resembling cacciatore?

Those are the types of vegetarians I cannot understand. If you crave meat so badly you have to pretend everything is still meat, then just eat meat. Our hospital cafeteria is horribly guilty of this, serving such dishes as, "Meatless meatloaf." Why not call it a vegetable loaf? Though, I do find it more amusing when the name appears more like, "Vegetarian Meatloaf." Does that mean the meat comes from vegetarians? I mean, maybe they're nice and tender from being grain-fed, but...

If you're creative enough to come up with a new recipe, think up a new name to go with it. I mean, that tofu dish actually does sound kind of tasty to me (or would if I liked tofu...but I can appreciate the concept), it's just that it's not even close to chicken cacciatore; it shouldn't even be called tofu cacciatore, because it's not even just a substitute of tofu for chicken.

Hmm...meatless chicken...does that mean it's made with the bones, beak, and feathers?

 

[out of whack]

Pity. A chef who reuses an existing name for an entirely different dish is missing a golden opportunity to be recognized as creator of this new dish. As a chef (which I am not) I would coin a new name for every new creation I come up with and become famous as its inventor. My cookbooks might sell much better.

 

[Math Is Hard]

Pity. A chef who reuses an existing name for an entirely different dish is missing a golden opportunity to be recognized as creator of this new dish. As a chef (which I am not) I would coin a new name for every new creation I come up with and become famous as its inventor. My cookbooks might sell much better.

Chicken Out-of-Whackatore?

 

[G01]

Interesting, I never knew Baklava was popular in the west.

I don't know how popular it is across the US, but it is definitely common where I'm from.

 

[morphism]

Mango chutney in cacciatore and Italian sausage in baklava?

 

[Evo]

Mango chutney in cacciatore and Italian sausage in baklava?

Frightening, isn't it.

 

[out of whack]

Chicken Out-of-Whackatore?

Right on! Doesn't it just scream "eat me"?

 

[Evo]

When I first married my now ex-husband, he asked me to make some of his favorite recipes his mother made. One was "chop suey". I absolutely could not imagine this New England matriarch doing a chinese style stir fry, so I asked her for the recipe. Here are the ingredients -

ground beef
Campbell's canned tomato soup
1 green bell pepper
macaroni



Another dish he wanted was goulash. Ok, this I made quite often before I met him, with chunks of beef, and lots of paprika. Nope, not according to his mom. Her ingredeints for goulash -

ground beef
tomato sauce
oregano
macaroni



Wait, that's chop suey! Or no, it's a spaghetti sauce poured over macaroni and then cooked in a deep skillet until it forms a gloppy mess.

Of course the scariest "goulash" recipe is this one I just found.

12 ounces whole wheat macaroni (or other small pasta like bowtie or rotini)
1 lb lean ground beef or ground turkey
1 small onion, chopped
2 garlic cloves, minced
1 stalk celery, sliced
1/2 cup frozen sweet corn
1 (14 ounce) can kidney beans
3 tablespoons tomato paste
1 (14 ounce) can diced tomatoes
1 tablespoon italian seasoning
1 tablespoon paprika
1/2 cup cheddar cheese, shredded

The only ingredient this has that is actually in authentic goulash is the paprika. Therefore, any dish that contains paprika can be called goulash.

 

[radou]

I don't know how popular it is across the US, but it is definitely common where I'm from.

Are you from the Balkan?

 

[Evo]

Interesting, I never knew Baklava was popular in the west.

It has gained in popularity in the US, you can find it in most pastry shops now.

 

[Evo]

Those are the types of vegetarians I cannot understand. If you crave meat so badly you have to pretend everything is still meat, then just eat meat. Our hospital cafeteria is horribly guilty of this, serving such dishes as, "Meatless meatloaf." Why not call it a vegetable loaf? Though, I do find it more amusing when the name appears more like, "Vegetarian Meatloaf." Does that mean the meat comes from vegetarians? I mean, maybe they're nice and tender from being grain-fed, but...

If you're creative enough to come up with a new recipe, think up a new name to go with it. I mean, that tofu dish actually does sound kind of tasty to me (or would if I liked tofu...but I can appreciate the concept), it's just that it's not even close to chicken cacciatore; it shouldn't even be called tofu cacciatore, because it's not even just a substitute of tofu for chicken.

Plus cacciatore is "hunter's style", it's a hunter's stew. I don't know how many people hunt tofu here in the US.

Hmm...meatless chicken...does that mean it's made with the bones, beak, and feathers?

Moonbear, you are a riot.

 

[radou]

Plus cacciatore is "hunter's style", it's a hunter's stew. I don't know how many people hunt tofu here in the US.

Well, you just never know.

 

[Evo]

Ok, I found it, it wasn't chocolate mousse, It was chocolate French Silk Pie. It does contain chocolate. Thanks to Moonbear for finding the recipe.

16 oz applesauce
1 cup sugar
4 bananas
chocolate

Here's the thread.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=710244&postcount=90

 

[radou]

4 bananas
chocolate

:!) I absolutely adore everything where chocolate and bananas act together.

 

[Hurkyl]

I do find it more amusing when the name appears more like, "Vegetarian Meatloaf." Does that mean the meat comes from vegetarians? I mean, maybe they're nice and tender from being grain-fed, but...

That's hilarious!

 

[turbo]

That's why I never eat baby food.

 

[Evo]

That's why I never eat baby food.

 

[G01]

Are you from the Balkan?

Nah, I'm from the east US, Pennsylvania, to be more precise. I know we have baklava around here, but I thought it was due to the ethnic makeup of my area. I didn't know that is was equally as popular elsewhere in the states.

When I said, "across the US" I meant the other parts of the US where I don't live. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Astronuc]

Actually, it's closer to spanakopita, at least that's not a sweet desert.

I think of spanakopita as "spinach pie with a filling of spinach, feta cheese (usually), green onions, egg, and seasoning (often including dill)." I know there is a different name when meat is the main filling - possibly - Bougatsa (Greek Μπουγάτσα, Turkish boğaça) - a pastry constiting of custard, cheese, or minced meat filling between layers of phyllo.

or http://www.eatgreektonight.com/recipe.cfm?TypeID=4&RecipeID=70 - Minced meat stuffed in a fyllo (phyllo) pastry.

I suppose sausage instead of minced meat counts.

Here is a list of classic Greek meat dishes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_cuisine#Meat_dishes

and here is a list of classic Greek desserts and sweets
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_cuisine#Desserts_and_sweets

There is a difference!

A great site for Greek cuisine -
http://www.eatgreektonight.com/recipes.cfm

 

[Evo]

AAAACCKK!

I'm cooking corned beef with cabbage tonight and out of curiosity I looked up some recipes.

Oh my god, these idiots are talking about honey glaze for corned beef! With cabbage no less! Corned beef does not have a honey glaze nor does it have a sugar glaze (another idiotic recipe I found) and you don't put barbecue sauce on it.

 

[Cyrus]

You can probably thank the food network for that.

 

[turbo]

AAAACCKK!

I'm cooking corned beef with cabbage tonight and out of curiosity I looked up some recipes.

Oh my god, these idiots are talking about honey glaze for corned beef! With cabbage no less! Corned beef does not have a honey glaze nor does it have a sugar glaze (another idiotic recipe I found) and you don't put barbecue sauce on it.

Idiots! Corned beef is something that you don't screw with. If it's proper corned beef, you don't have to just stick with cabbage, potatoes, etc, but you can use any (mostly root) vegetables that you have on hand to make a delicious meal. Corned beef went on "special" here around St Patrick's day, but it was a WHOLE lot cheaper after that when the over-orders got sold off, and we would have great early-spring boiled dinners with our potatoes, carrots, turnips, etc from the previous growing season. With our salted leeks, chives, garlic, etc, and we were "stylin' " on the cheap.

My father is 81 and he still has a little garden, but I remember when I was a kid (before I got to 14-15 years old and could earn real money), caring for a garden about 10 times that size was my job, and my mother and I canned and pickled and froze enough vegetables and wild berries to keep our grocery list minimal. These days, when my wife goes shopping, her list might look like "mayonnaise, blade steaks, coffee, milk, potatoes, peppers, grapes" or something similar, though once the garden starts coming in, we hone in on those foods and our food purchases are minimal.

 

[Evo]

You can probably thank the food network for that.

I DO!

Corned beef has a unique taste that makes it unmistakeably corned beef, that's why you buy it, you don't buy it and then try to make it NOT taste like corned beef.

It's like buying pastrami and trying to make it taste like fried fish.

THAT'S CRAZY!

 

[turbo]

Evo, most people have not had real corned beef. Most people have not had real salt pork or real smoked bacon or salted leeks or fresh (or fermented) apple cider. Most people in this country are so removed from the sources of their food that they wouldn't recognize a beef stomach lining (tripe) or a pig's intestine (large=blood sausage casing, small= regular sausage casing) if they were beaten over the head with them. My wife and I are trying to remove ourselves as much as possible from the commercial crap being sold at the retail level, and get as much meat as we can from local organic farmers, while growing/harvesting as much cultivated/wild food as we can to fill our freezers.

 

[Evo]

Evo, most people have not had real corned beef. Most people have not had real salt pork or real smoked bacon or salted leeks or fresh (or fermented) apple cider. Most people in this country are so removed from the sources of their food that they wouldn't recognize a beef stomach lining (tripe) or a pig's intestine (large=blood sausage casing, small= regular sausage casing) if they were beaten over the head with them. My wife and I are trying to remove ourselves as much as possible from the commercial crap being sold at the retail level, and get as much meat as we can from local organic farmers, while growing/harvesting as much cultivated/wild food as we can to fill our freezers.

KUDOS to you and your wife!

We really need to preserve traditional recipes and make people realize if it deviates from the traditional, its not the same dish and needs to be renamed. Nothing wrong with creating a new dish, just DON'T bastardize the real deal.

There are cetain cooking terms, like florentine, that means with spinach.

Veronique mean with grapes.

People on these "cooking" shows and websites have no idea of cooking terms or the history of the dish. They have absolutely no idea what the meaning of a dish is.

 

[NoTime]

Evo, most people have not had real corned beef. Most people have not had real salt pork or real smoked bacon or salted leeks or fresh (or fermented) apple cider.

All good stuff. It's been a while since you could go to a farm, hold a cup at the press and get some fresh cider.
Probably illegal now

Maple syrups a good thing

It may be worse than you say, I doubt that a lot of people would recognize a cow if they saw one let alone parts of it.

 

[turbo]

It may indeed be worse. Many people are absolutely clueless. Although most people could see a picture of a cow and think "cow", they are so divorced from reality and caught up in hype that they will willingly pay $$$$$ for inferior cuts of beef. The very best bang for the buck is blade steaks. Yeah, they've got a thin line of gristle down the center, but they are one of the most flavorful cuts of beef available, and CHEAP! Our typical weekend breakfast is rare blade steaks rubbed with salt and black pepper, quick-fried in butter, with a side of crispy fried potatoes (in olive oil) and maybe some toast made from home-made onion-rye bread.

If you haven't tried blade steaks, you're in for a treat. Sliced thin and fried very hot, they are an acceptable substitute for venison. There isn't another cut of beef that comes close, IMO. Another great little secret is to bake big salmon, trout, etc with their heads on. The jaw muscles hiding under the gill flaps are more delectable than sea scallops or lobster. They can trigger good-natured (or not) jostling amongst those who are "in the know".

 

[mbrmbrg]

People on these "cooking" shows and websites have no idea of cooking terms or the history of the dish. They have absolutely no idea what the meaning of a dish is.

Whoa--I've got it! Take the food threads throughout PF history, throw in some science (thermodynamics, bio, chem, etc.) and let's start our own darn cooking show... PysicsForumsPhood is coming: watch out!

 

[Evo]

Whoa--I've got it! Take the food threads throughout PF history, throw in some science (thermodynamics, bio, chem, etc.) and let's start our own darn cooking show... PysicsForumsPhood is coming: watch out!

Now that would be a great idea! I suggest we start the Geek Channel. We could have woodworking for geeks, masonry for geeks, etc... We would spend a lot of time discussing the project, alternatives to the project, probable outcomes, of course using lots of math and diagrams. Unfortunately each show would run out of time before any actual work could be started.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

Already posted: Astronuc and Zapper in the kitchen
http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/5835/cookies2dm3.jpg