Inorganic life now likely? (Its life, Jim, but not as we know it)

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter Robert100
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Life
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of plasma-based forms of life as proposed in a recent paper published in the "New Journal of Physics." Participants explore the implications of these structures existing in space and their potential classification as inorganic living matter, examining the theoretical and experimental aspects of this idea.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants highlight that the paper presents a serious exploration of plasma-based life, suggesting it may be more than mere speculation.
  • There is discussion about the classification of these plasma structures, which may exist in a gray area between "living" and "non-living," similar to viruses.
  • One participant references a related earlier article that discusses self-assembled gaseous cells and their operational characteristics, drawing parallels to biological cells.
  • Another participant shares a video lecture on the relationship between water, energy, and life, indicating ongoing interest in the topic of life forms beyond traditional definitions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express interest in the topic, but there is no clear consensus on the implications or definitions surrounding plasma-based life. Multiple viewpoints and interpretations of the findings exist, indicating an ongoing debate.

Contextual Notes

The discussion reflects a range of assumptions about what constitutes life and the conditions necessary for these plasma structures to evolve. The definitions and criteria for life remain unresolved and are subject to interpretation.

Robert100
Messages
83
Reaction score
0
In this month's "New Journal of Physics" we find an exciting paper on the possibility that space is filled plasma-based forms of, well, "life". Or as Bones said to Kirk on "Star Trek", "Its life, Jim, but not as we know it." I know that people have loosely speculated on plasma based forms of life previously, but as far as I know this is the first time someone has seriously shown that it is possible, and perhaps very likely. More problematic is what we should call these dynamically evolving plasma structures. In the present form they seem to exist in the ill-defined regions between "certainly living" and "certainly not living", like viruses.

The website for the journal is listed below; the article may be freely viewed in HTML or PDF formats.

Robert

From plasma crystals and helical structures towards inorganic living matter

V N Tsytovich, G E Morfill, V E Fortov, N G Gusein-Zade, B A Klumov and S V Vladimirov

Abstract
Complex plasmas may naturally self-organize themselves into stable interacting helical structures that exhibit features normally attributed to organic living matter. The self-organization is based on non-trivial physical mechanisms of plasma interactions involving over-screening of plasma polarization. As a result, each helical string composed of solid microparticles is topologically and dynamically controlled by plasma fluxes leading to particle charging and over-screening, the latter providing attraction even among helical strings of the same charge sign. These interacting complex structures exhibit thermodynamic and evolutionary features thought to be peculiar only to living matter such as bifurcations that serve as `memory marks', self-duplication, metabolic rates in a thermodynamically open system, and non-Hamiltonian dynamics.

We examine the salient features of this new complex `state of soft matter' in light of the autonomy, evolution, progenity and autopoiesis principles used to define life. It is concluded that complex self-organized plasma structures exhibit all the necessary properties to qualify them as candidates for inorganic living matter that may exist in space provided certain conditions allow them to evolve naturally

http://www.iop.org/EJ/toc/1367-2630/9/8
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Thanks, Robert. Ivan (I think) posted a link about this in Biology, but it was more of a 'Popular Science' feature. A lot of us have been hoping for a more detailed examination.
 
I'd like to bump this thread to include a link to the illustrated full text of the Tsytovich paper referenced above:
http://iopscience.iop.org/1367-2630/9/8/263/fulltext

Along the same lines, I found this similar but earlier article: http://www.dapla.org/pdf/Lozneanu1.pdf
"Thus, similar to biological cells, the boundary of a self-assembled gaseous cell provides a selective enclosure of an environment that qualitatively differs from the surrounding medium. The boundary appears as a spherical self-consistent electrical double layer (DL) able to sustain and control operations such as: (i) capture and transformation of energy, (ii) preferential and rhythmic exchange of matter across the system boundary and (iii) internal transformation of matter by means of a continuous ‘‘synthesis’’ of all components of the system."

And from my own backyard,

A recent video lecture on Water, Energy and Life by University of Washington Professor Gerald Pollack. I hope the 60 minutes or so you spend watching this proves to be well justified. New laboratory experiments are shown.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Robert100 said:
In this month's "New Journal of Physics" we find an exciting paper on the possibility that space is filled plasma-based forms of, well, "life". Or as Bones said to Kirk on "Star Trek", "Its life, Jim, but not as we know it." I know that people have loosely speculated on plasma based forms of life previously, but as far as I know this is the first time someone has seriously shown that it is possible, and perhaps very likely. More problematic is what we should call these dynamically evolving plasma structures. In the present form they seem to exist in the ill-defined regions between "certainly living" and "certainly not living", like viruses.

The website for the journal is listed below; the article may be freely viewed in HTML or PDF formats.

Robert

From plasma crystals and helical structures towards inorganic living matter

V N Tsytovich, G E Morfill, V E Fortov, N G Gusein-Zade, B A Klumov and S V Vladimirov

Abstract
Complex plasmas may naturally self-organize themselves into stable interacting helical structures that exhibit features normally attributed to organic living matter. The self-organization is based on non-trivial physical mechanisms of plasma interactions involving over-screening of plasma polarization. As a result, each helical string composed of solid microparticles is topologically and dynamically controlled by plasma fluxes leading to particle charging and over-screening, the latter providing attraction even among helical strings of the same charge sign. These interacting complex structures exhibit thermodynamic and evolutionary features thought to be peculiar only to living matter such as bifurcations that serve as `memory marks', self-duplication, metabolic rates in a thermodynamically open system, and non-Hamiltonian dynamics.

We examine the salient features of this new complex `state of soft matter' in light of the autonomy, evolution, progenity and autopoiesis principles used to define life. It is concluded that complex self-organized plasma structures exhibit all the necessary properties to qualify them as candidates for inorganic living matter that may exist in space provided certain conditions allow them to evolve naturally

http://www.iop.org/EJ/toc/1367-2630/9/8

The article is at
http://iopscience.iop.org/1367-2630/9/8/263/fulltext/
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
1K
Replies
8
Views
5K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
4K
  • · Replies 48 ·
2
Replies
48
Views
10K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
6K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
Replies
26
Views
20K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
6K