Correcting Discrepancies in Schwarzschild Geodesic Equations

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around discrepancies in the geodesic equations for the Schwarzschild metric, specifically focusing on differences in formulations found in various sources. Participants are examining the equations' derivations and their implications for understanding motion in a gravitational field, with references to multiple texts and derivation methods.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant identifies a discrepancy between the second derivative of the azimuth angle in two sources, noting that one source has a positive term while another has a negative term.
  • Another participant mentions that their sources do not use Christoffel symbols, indicating a different approach to deriving the geodesic equations.
  • A reference to Sean Carroll's lecture notes is provided, suggesting that his equations align with one of the sources in question.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the reliability of the McMahon text, suggesting it may contain errors.
  • A later reply highlights that the motion can be simplified by setting the angle \(\theta\) to \(\pi/2\), similar to Newtonian orbits, which may affect the equations being discussed.
  • An editor of a relevant text offers additional notes that may assist in understanding the derivation of the Schwarzschild equations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on which source is correct regarding the discrepancies in the geodesic equations. Multiple competing views remain, with some participants favoring Carroll's interpretation over McMahon's.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved issues regarding the derivation methods used in different sources, and the discussion highlights the potential for errors in the texts referenced. The simplification of setting \(\theta = \pi/2\) is noted as a common approach but may not be universally applicable.

snoopies622
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I was looking into the geodesic equations for the Schwarzschild metric and I noticed a discrepancy between two sources: According to http://www.mathpages.com/rr/s5-05/5-05.htm (near the bottom) the second derivative of the azimuth angle is

<br /> <br /> \frac {d^{2} \phi}{d \lambda ^2}=\frac {-2}{r} \frac {dr}{d \lambda} \frac {d \phi}{d \lambda}+ \frac {2}{tan (\theta )}\frac {d \theta}{d \lambda} \frac {d \phi}{d \lambda}<br /> <br />

where \lambda is something proportional to proper time \tau. In Relativity Demystified (David McMahon, 2006 McGraw Hill, page 218) however, the corresponding equation has the second term negative instead of positive. (The other three equations match exactly.) I also have a copy of Lillian R. Lieber's The Einstein Theory of Relativity (Paul Dry Books, 2008) but in her version (p. 269) the second term is missing altogether.

I intend to try to derive these equations myself but I would like to know in advance what the correct versions are so when I'm done I can see if I made any mistakes. Does anyone happen to know which source is right?
 
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I only have two books home with me that treat Schwarzschild geodesics, and neither uses Christoffel symbols to find the geodesics, so their equations are a little further on in the process.
snoopies622 said:
I also have a copy of Lillian R. Lieber's The Einstein Theory of Relativity (Paul Dry Books, 2008) but in her version (p. 269) the second term is missing altogether.

As is the case for Newtonian orbits, motion takes place "in a plane", and, WLOG, it's convenient to take \theta = \pi / 2. This wipes out the last term in the equation.
 
Thanks; I'll take a look at the Carroll notes as soon as I can get to a computer with Adobe. Unfortunately my operating system is so old that Adobe is no longer available for it.
 
Hey thanks again, atyy. It looks like Carroll agrees with mathpages.com instead of McMahon. I'll have to do the computations myself to be sure, but in the meantime I suspect that he's right since frankly that McMahon text doesn't seem very reliable. It's written in a very easy-to-read style but is definitely not error-free.
 
I'm one of the editors of the new edition of Lillian and Hugh Lieber's The Einstein Theory of Relativity. I don't know if the reader above (snoopies622) checked out the additional notes Bob Jantzen and I added to the book, but they may help him or her work through the Schwarzschild derivation.

My thanks to George Jones who pointed out that \theta could be set equal to \pi/2 without loss of generality. Just as in the standard Newtonian Binet equation the motion takes place in a plane, so too in the relativistic version; the Schwarzschild orbits are two dimensional problems.
 

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